Hi,
After years of english and spanish style, This years I'm exploring agricoles world.
I like very much Barbancourt 15y. I don't like much J Bally Pyramid 7....too dry for my taste.
Can you advice me which agricoles are sweet and which are dry???
I know agricole are dry compared with many molasses rum. Barbancourt is dry compared to El Dorado. But is sweet compared to J Bally.
I'd like to taste Neisson Extra viex and Vue Belle 10y. These are like Barbancourt or Bally in sweetness???
Can you add to list eh eh???
Barbancourt 15 --> Sweet
J Bally Pyramid 7--> Dry
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Advice Agricole
I haven't had much of the agricole/can juice rums, but one of my favorites is Westerhall Plantation. Which I think of being sweet without (I hope) additives. I like it better than the Barbancourt 5-star 8 year (I haven't tried the 15).
You might want to check Rum Reviews Rankings and Cheat Sheet for other highly rated cane juice rums. (Alleyne Arthur?, it might not be aged enough for your taste)
You might want to check Rum Reviews Rankings and Cheat Sheet for other highly rated cane juice rums. (Alleyne Arthur?, it might not be aged enough for your taste)
Rum Reviews Rankings and Cheat Sheet
References: MGXO, R Mat. GR, Scar Ibis, Apple 12, Barb 5, Pusser's, Wray and Neph, ED 15, 10Cn, West Plant, R Barc Imp.
References: MGXO, R Mat. GR, Scar Ibis, Apple 12, Barb 5, Pusser's, Wray and Neph, ED 15, 10Cn, West Plant, R Barc Imp.
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Capn Jimbo
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Barbancourt stands alone...
One of the issues you are facing is that Barbancourt stands nearly alone in the time and care they take to distill and especially to age their cane juice rums (aka agricoles). For example almost none of the Martinique cane juice products are aged very much at all, just a few years, whereas Barbancourt's youngest rums are older than most of the Martinique offerings.
The logical place for you to go is first to the Barbancourt Five Star (8 yo) which frankly is more widely respected than the 15. Don't overlook their Three Star (4 yo) either. This would be my progression before you look to other cane juice rums.
One of the issues you are facing is that Barbancourt stands nearly alone in the time and care they take to distill and especially to age their cane juice rums (aka agricoles). For example almost none of the Martinique cane juice products are aged very much at all, just a few years, whereas Barbancourt's youngest rums are older than most of the Martinique offerings.
The logical place for you to go is first to the Barbancourt Five Star (8 yo) which frankly is more widely respected than the 15. Don't overlook their Three Star (4 yo) either. This would be my progression before you look to other cane juice rums.
By nature, rum straight from the cask is not typically very sugary sweet. It can be made sweet with additions (sugars). Cognac and brandy is not as sweet either by nature as many consumers of mainstream brands think...
Most agricole rums are clearly dry, and have no sugar additions as far as I know.
Sorry to say, I do believe that El Dorado 15yo would not be so sweet from the casks either...without some blending, filtering and most likely added sugar. Adding sweetness is practically an industry standard these days, it seems. Trying some Velier, Bristol Spirits, Cadenheads indy-bottlings from Guyanese rum stocks, the sweetness of El Dorado and Banks is really noticeable in comparison. Still the sources of the rum are the very same.
If there is no added sugar (as some sources say), I don't think that just charcoal filtration alone explains the huge difference in sweetness - particularly since El Dorado's 21yo for example used to be drier (as was English Harbour XO also, for example). In whisky for example you do not find such a difference between original distillery bottlings, and indy-bottlings....Strange huh?
If you do want to have sweet Martinique rum, try adding sugar to it. Who knows, it may well work and the palate will change to suite someone who likes rums very sweet. This is not sarcasm, but actually it might work. Experiment. Venezuelan rums are mostly super-sweet (Diplomatico, younger Pampero's for example). Barbancourt is unlike any other agricole I've tasted. I do not know if they add sugars in some form or not, but their rum is good, and not exceptionally sweet (although not harsh as some agricoles from Martinique).
Most agricole rums are clearly dry, and have no sugar additions as far as I know.
Sorry to say, I do believe that El Dorado 15yo would not be so sweet from the casks either...without some blending, filtering and most likely added sugar. Adding sweetness is practically an industry standard these days, it seems. Trying some Velier, Bristol Spirits, Cadenheads indy-bottlings from Guyanese rum stocks, the sweetness of El Dorado and Banks is really noticeable in comparison. Still the sources of the rum are the very same.
If there is no added sugar (as some sources say), I don't think that just charcoal filtration alone explains the huge difference in sweetness - particularly since El Dorado's 21yo for example used to be drier (as was English Harbour XO also, for example). In whisky for example you do not find such a difference between original distillery bottlings, and indy-bottlings....Strange huh?
If you do want to have sweet Martinique rum, try adding sugar to it. Who knows, it may well work and the palate will change to suite someone who likes rums very sweet. This is not sarcasm, but actually it might work. Experiment. Venezuelan rums are mostly super-sweet (Diplomatico, younger Pampero's for example). Barbancourt is unlike any other agricole I've tasted. I do not know if they add sugars in some form or not, but their rum is good, and not exceptionally sweet (although not harsh as some agricoles from Martinique).
When you say that Barbancourt stands alone do you mean Barbancourt is better? Or Barbancourt is different?Capn Jimbo wrote:Barbancourt stands alone...
The logical place for you to go is first to the Barbancourt Five Star (8 yo) which frankly is more widely respected than the 15. ..............
Barbancourt 8y is more respected than 15y??? Why???
No, no ok. I don't want an agricole sweet like El Dorado. I think in El Dorado they add molasses (I don't care it, eh eh). As I wrote above I Know agricoles are dryer than El Dorado or Diplomatico. But in agricoles world there are agricole more or less dry. Barbancourt is less dry. I like it. J Bally is more dry. I don't like it. In this range (always less sweet than el Dorado & co.) which agricole are more dry and which less dry???JaRiMi wrote:By nature, rum straight from the cask is not typically very sugary sweet. It can be made sweet with additions (sugars). Cognac and brandy is not as sweet either by nature as many consumers of mainstream brands think...
Most agricole rums are clearly dry, and have no sugar additions as far as I know.
Sorry to say, I do believe that El Dorado 15yo would not be so sweet from the casks either...without some blending, filtering and most likely added sugar. Adding sweetness is practically an industry standard these days, it seems. Trying some Velier, Bristol Spirits, Cadenheads indy-bottlings from Guyanese rum stocks, the sweetness of El Dorado and Banks is really noticeable in comparison. Still the sources of the rum are the very same.
If there is no added sugar (as some sources say), I don't think that just charcoal filtration alone explains the huge difference in sweetness - particularly since El Dorado's 21yo for example used to be drier (as was English Harbour XO also, for example). In whisky for example you do not find such a difference between original distillery bottlings, and indy-bottlings....Strange huh?
If you do want to have sweet Martinique rum, try adding sugar to it. Who knows, it may well work and the palate will change to suite someone who likes rums very sweet. This is not sarcasm, but actually it might work. Experiment. Venezuelan rums are mostly super-sweet (Diplomatico, younger Pampero's for example). Barbancourt is unlike any other agricole I've tasted. I do not know if they add sugars in some form or not, but their rum is good, and not exceptionally sweet (although not harsh as some agricoles from Martinique).
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Capn Jimbo
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Let's try the side door...
Please read the earlier post again - I explained that Barbancourt pretty much stands alone, particularly for any reasonable price, in terms of its aging. Most of the Martiniquean rums are really not aged more than a few years, while Barbancourt ages their rums at lower proofs for more years in very expensive French oak barrels. They also use some pot stilling in the process. All of these combine to produce a "less dry" profile that you like.
All of these combine to make a much more well rounded cane juice rum, one that you perceive as less dry. Please do not be misled by age alone. It has been said that aging occurs much more rapidly in tropics due to the heat and temperature variations at night which cause the barrels to "breathe" more aggressively.
As a result their 8 year old rum is perfectly aged, and most leading reviewers consider it superior to the 15 year which borders on being - but is not yet - over oaked. Aging any spirit for long periods risks going too far with wood effects. This is why the 8 year is more prized than the 15. As for us, we think that 7 to 10 years in the tropics is more than enough.
Last, I won't speak for JaRiMi, but his suggestion to sweeten those cane juice rums that you find too dry with a bit of sugar or sugar syrup, is a very good idea, especially because you can then control the flavor to your personal preference.
In fact, this is such a good idea that you are now under Capn's orders to do so, and to let us know what happened...
Please read the earlier post again - I explained that Barbancourt pretty much stands alone, particularly for any reasonable price, in terms of its aging. Most of the Martiniquean rums are really not aged more than a few years, while Barbancourt ages their rums at lower proofs for more years in very expensive French oak barrels. They also use some pot stilling in the process. All of these combine to produce a "less dry" profile that you like.
All of these combine to make a much more well rounded cane juice rum, one that you perceive as less dry. Please do not be misled by age alone. It has been said that aging occurs much more rapidly in tropics due to the heat and temperature variations at night which cause the barrels to "breathe" more aggressively.
As a result their 8 year old rum is perfectly aged, and most leading reviewers consider it superior to the 15 year which borders on being - but is not yet - over oaked. Aging any spirit for long periods risks going too far with wood effects. This is why the 8 year is more prized than the 15. As for us, we think that 7 to 10 years in the tropics is more than enough.
Last, I won't speak for JaRiMi, but his suggestion to sweeten those cane juice rums that you find too dry with a bit of sugar or sugar syrup, is a very good idea, especially because you can then control the flavor to your personal preference.
In fact, this is such a good idea that you are now under Capn's orders to do so, and to let us know what happened...
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Capn Jimbo
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And another thing, lol...
For some incomprehensible reason I re-discovered a bottle of Mae de Oro cachaca and decided to do a dram. I had forgotten what a joy a good cachaca can be.
Altair, you should keep in mind that cachaca has been made for hundreds of years longer than Martinque's AOC version of the 1990's. Remember AOC is a marketing invention and in no way defines what a cane juice rum should be. It's a label and a production method peculiar to that island, period.
Cachaca sells more cane juice rum in a week than Martinique sells in a year. There's a reason. It is authentic, relatively pure and is represented by literally thousands of labels and producers. As for the Mae de Oro...
This cachaca comes from a respected region of Brazil. Two things are important insofar as you are concerned: first, that it well represents its cane juice origin - the reedy/caney aspects are lovely - but - it ALSO has a nice balancing sweetness that is entirely missing from the limited products of Martinique.
I think Mae de Oro would be perfect for you - exactly what you have been looking for...
For some incomprehensible reason I re-discovered a bottle of Mae de Oro cachaca and decided to do a dram. I had forgotten what a joy a good cachaca can be.
Altair, you should keep in mind that cachaca has been made for hundreds of years longer than Martinque's AOC version of the 1990's. Remember AOC is a marketing invention and in no way defines what a cane juice rum should be. It's a label and a production method peculiar to that island, period.
Cachaca sells more cane juice rum in a week than Martinique sells in a year. There's a reason. It is authentic, relatively pure and is represented by literally thousands of labels and producers. As for the Mae de Oro...
This cachaca comes from a respected region of Brazil. Two things are important insofar as you are concerned: first, that it well represents its cane juice origin - the reedy/caney aspects are lovely - but - it ALSO has a nice balancing sweetness that is entirely missing from the limited products of Martinique.
I think Mae de Oro would be perfect for you - exactly what you have been looking for...
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Capn Jimbo
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The problem with the Shillery...
...is that you end up buying overpriced "rhum agricoles" that are little better than good cachaca's that are one-half to one-third the price. Here's the deal: what "rhum snobs" call "rhum agricole" - which is nothing more than what price and marketing influenced buyers call "cane juice rum" - this "rhum agricole made on Martinique is horribly overpriced and is really not all that much better than a well made cachaca.
They are both made from fresh cane juice, and both exhibit very similar aromas and tastes. The Preacher would have you believe that because cane juice rums are made on Martinique that they are worth three times the price of one made in Brazil. Keep in mind that Brazil has been making their cane juice rums for several hundred years, and the Martinique version (labeled "AOC") wasn't made until the early 1990's.
It just so happens that Sue Sea and I found an incredible deal on Rhum JM (one of the more expensive AOC Martinique cane juice rums for - are you sitting down? - just $12.95 (earlier I found one for $8.95). The JM Blanc normally sells for around $35.00. We made both caparinhas and ti punches with both the JM (50%) and a respected cachaca, Mae de Oro (40%). Although the higher alcohol of the JM was notable, these two cane juice rums were very, very similar and could be considered interchangeable.
Altair, you would do well to find and try a Mae de Oro as it displays the hint of sweetness you seem to like. FYI, the Neisson white 55% is not aged much at all, and I am quite sure you'd prefer the Mae de Oro. Although most cachacas are aged for perhaps a year, some of them are indeed older. I suspect that in general, you would prefer a good cachaca over the expensive version from Martinique.
...is that you end up buying overpriced "rhum agricoles" that are little better than good cachaca's that are one-half to one-third the price. Here's the deal: what "rhum snobs" call "rhum agricole" - which is nothing more than what price and marketing influenced buyers call "cane juice rum" - this "rhum agricole made on Martinique is horribly overpriced and is really not all that much better than a well made cachaca.
They are both made from fresh cane juice, and both exhibit very similar aromas and tastes. The Preacher would have you believe that because cane juice rums are made on Martinique that they are worth three times the price of one made in Brazil. Keep in mind that Brazil has been making their cane juice rums for several hundred years, and the Martinique version (labeled "AOC") wasn't made until the early 1990's.
It just so happens that Sue Sea and I found an incredible deal on Rhum JM (one of the more expensive AOC Martinique cane juice rums for - are you sitting down? - just $12.95 (earlier I found one for $8.95). The JM Blanc normally sells for around $35.00. We made both caparinhas and ti punches with both the JM (50%) and a respected cachaca, Mae de Oro (40%). Although the higher alcohol of the JM was notable, these two cane juice rums were very, very similar and could be considered interchangeable.
Altair, you would do well to find and try a Mae de Oro as it displays the hint of sweetness you seem to like. FYI, the Neisson white 55% is not aged much at all, and I am quite sure you'd prefer the Mae de Oro. Although most cachacas are aged for perhaps a year, some of them are indeed older. I suspect that in general, you would prefer a good cachaca over the expensive version from Martinique.