Bend your mind around this Dept: a Refractometer test and..

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Capn Jimbo
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Bend your mind around this Dept: a Refractometer test and..

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Testing Seales 10 and an old Z-23 (Anos)...


Note: this post has been corrected for bad math. Pusser's was also tested but this was invalid (for now) as it is not a 40% rum.



Some time ago Sleepy offered to settle the whole damn sugar matter by graciously offering to buy a refractometer and get 'er done. This was I thought, a brilliant idea and offer for not just a few reasons. A meter could be had for around $20 (I ordered one for $17 delivered), these were generally very accurate (within 1/10 of one Brix), quick (took only 30 seconds), automatically adjusted for standard temperature, 20C and best of all, only required a few drops of rum. In sum...

The perfect meter for any idiot, and especially this one. Usable by anyone, anywhere with good readings almost guaranteed. Wow! The way these work is this: a few drops of liquid are placed on the glass and covered. Ambient light passes through the liquid and is "bent". If sugar is present the light is "bent" more and voila! You get a higher reading in "Brix" which refers to the amount of solids in the liquid. Allegedly fast, accurate and easy peasy!

But there's always a spoil sport, and this time it was no less than our good friend RS, who pointed out that sadly, these meters are calibrated to determine Brix/sugar compared to distilled water. Because rums are normally 40% alcohol or so, the meter would calculate a Brix that was way too high (because alcohol has a lower specific gravity than water). Thus any readings would not be reliable. "Nonsensical" he said.

But I argued, couldn't I create our own table by taking reading of a test solution of 40% alcohol in distilled water, then add sugar in increasing amounts, take readings and produce our own graph, thus converting the "nonsensical" numbers to actual amounts? Is this possible I asked? Although my theory drew large guffaws, after a delay RS got back to me and stated "Yes, but it would only be good for 40% rums. You'd have to make a different table for other proofs.".

In other words, I could use a refractometer, but only after creating a table for 40% rums. Because I liked the ease and potential accuracy of the meter, I ordered one anyway, which was just delivered. Since most rums are 40% anyway, I believed it would be worth creating at least a 40% table.


Was the receipt an exciting experience?

You bet. There's nothing like a new toy, especially one that will find sugar in rum. No I didn't create a table - but - I just had to see how accurate and easy it might be to use. Accordingly I tested two rums of great interest:

Seales 10, and of course, - a old bottle of Z23 (purchased over 8 years ago and still using 23 "anos" on the bottle). I took a few readings and discovered the following:
  • 1. The meter was extremely consistent and could easily and repeatedly be read to 1/10 of one Brix.

    2. The results:
    • Seales: 14.4
      Zee 23: 17.9 or 18.0
Seales returned a reading of 14.4 which we know represents Zero Sugar. Subtracting 14.4 from the Z-23's reading of 17.9 leaves a difference of an added 3.5 Brix/sugar in the Z-23. Amazingly the Brix calculated using this very old Z-23 compares favorably with the current Finnish/Swedish testing of Z-23 which also reports a Brix in the 3's!

Since we know the old Z-23 probably had around 40g of sugar, and since the refractometer read 3.5 Brix higher than the Seales control rum, a rough estimate is that each point of additional Brix would translate into about 11.4 grams of sugar per liter.


Flat Ass Bottom Line

This is incredible news. It worked!

With no calibration, no test runs, and no tables - by simply using Seale's 10 as a control, the Brix calculated for a very old Z-23 was remarkably close to the actual amounts reported by the Finnish/Swedes for a current Z-23. If this can be repeated for other rums with known sugar levels, this may well eliminate the need to create a table/graph. The acid test will be comparing the refractometer along with the hydrometer in testing of 40% test solutions (from zero to 50 grams of sugar).

By next week both methods, but surely that using the hydrometer should be ready to go...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:57 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

bump...

Please reread the OP, as math errors had to corrected. My apologies...
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Testing MGXO, ED12 and ED15...


Once again, using Seales 10 as a control on this cool morning, the following results were obtained:
  • Seales 10: 15.0 (ZS)
    MGXO: 15.0 (ZS)
    ED 12: 17.0 (Brix 2.0, est sugar 23g)
    ED 15: 17.0 (Brix 2.0, est sugar 23g)
    Z-23 Anos (very old) 18.2 (Brix 3.2, est sugar 37g)
Once again the tests were done without calibration, as it is difference in Brix I was after. My technique was not ideal (later on this). Also note that other than the Seales 10, all the other rums were very old, at least 6 or more years or even more.

Clarification: all the other rums were very old, PURCHASED at least 6 or more years ago, or even more. Thanks to Dai.

Based on this only the MGXO would appear to have Zero Sugar. The old ED's came in at a rough 23g. This time the same old Z-23a came in at a Brix of 3.2 compared to 3.5 last time. Whether this reflects technique is yet unclear - even so, the reading are within about 8% of one another.

Caveat: this procedure has not yet been performed on a known 40% test solution with varying levels of sugar. Until then we're just having fun. Speaking of which and just for the fun of it, I tested tap water (not distilled) and got a return of just shade over 0.0 Brix.

Bottom Line: We are onto something here. It seems increasingly possible that a refractometer may be a quick and easy alternative to the hydrometer, but we need to know:
  • 1. How it will fare reading a known 40% test solution with varying and known levels of sugar. Can this method be made reasonably consistent and accurate?

    2. What will the methodology need to be in terms of calibration, drawing the sample, allowing the meter to stabilize, etc. The goal will of course be both ease AND improved accuracy.

    3. How accurate is the inexpensive meter I'm using? Does it really have ATC (automatic temperature correction)? To be determined.
Until the refractometer is fully verified, the focus needs to remain on the hydrometer.
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dai »

Seales 10: 15.0 (ZS)
MGXO: 15.0 (ZS)
ED 15: 17.0 (Brix 2.0, est sugar 23g)
Z-23 Anos (very old) 18.2 (Brix 3.2, est sugar 37g)
ED 12: 17.0 (Brix 2.0, est sugar 23g)

Not very accurate we already know ED12 is 45 g/l in sugar.



Capn's Log: At first I thought you must have taken leave of your senses, as I'd I tried to make it clear that these tests were performed on VERY OLD bottles of rum, perhaps 8 years old, some of the first bottles we purchased back in 2006. The Finn/Swede tests are current, made on current production. That rums have changed in the last 8 years is a given, particularly since 2013 and the massive subsidies, and the ED's in particular. You'll also note that Z-23 hasn't changed much at all.

However, in rereading my post I said "... other than the Seales 10, all the other rums were very old, at least 6 years or even more." Oops! To be clear I should have said "...all the other rums were very old, PURCHASED at least 6 or more years ago or even more". Whew! Words are important. The needed clarification has been added above.

The tests are quite accurate. Hope that clears things up, thanks for catching that my friend. Crew, untie Dai from the mast...
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

This thread is now officially "red"...


When it rains it pours. For the benefit of those who may have earlier read Dai's post above, I'm repeating my clarification. Score: one correction, one clarification: the first in the OP for math errors, and the second to make clear that the tests were performed on bottles purchased long ago, up to 8 years ago! In fact, the Z-23a was one of the first three rums we purchased back in 2006 - so old that the bottle still read "23 Anos", not "23". The ED rums tested were also from old purchases, perhaps 6 or 7 years ago and the results indicate sugar levels way back then. That the ED's have changed in just the last few years is a given, especially since 2013 and the subsidies.

What I find very interesting is that even back then it seems sugar was added.


Not to be difficult but...


Let me repeat. These are rough preliminary tests and were performed as stated "just for fun" and to try out the meter. I'll say it again: until we test a known solution of 40% alcohol in distilled water, with known added amounts of sugar (from zero to 50g) any estimates of sugar remain very rough. Let me explain...

Any sugars reported so far are based on the guess that the 2006 Z-23 might contain 40g of sugar. A guess based on an assumption based on a memory based on the Finn's. Did the old Zee's (including Zaya) contain sugar? Survey sez: yes. If so, do we know for sure how much? No. Let me put it this way: I'm completely comfortable the meter is reasonably accurate. The interpretation of the readings awaits the results from a test solution. Try reading the preliminaries this way...

If Seales 10 is a "zero", then a 2006 Z-23a scored "3.3 - 3.5" and the estimated 2007 ED's scored "2.0". That IS meaningful and repeatable. It's what those readings mean in more exact terms that needs an answer (to be provided by the upcoming test solution). For the moment it's simply interesting, but even now it's fair to assume that however much sugar the Z-23a might have had, the ED's in comparison exhibited about 6/10th's as much. If the 2006 Z-23a contained 40g, then the ED would contain 23g, and so on.

When Dai says that a current ED15 tested 45g he is correct. But even that test was accurate only on the day it was made, in the country it was made and only for the bottles provided and tested. Is that test even valid now? Is it valid here? The ED's have changed over the years, and I suspect they will continue changing.

Shoot if you will, but kindly aim first, lol...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by bearmark »

I have to say that this is pretty cool stuff and sounds fun. We'll have to start calling you Dr. Jimbo-stein... at least in this thread. :wink:




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Post by Dai »

Dai wrote:
Seales 10: 15.0 (ZS)
MGXO: 15.0 (ZS)
ED 15: 17.0 (Brix 2.0, est sugar 23g)
Z-23 Anos (very old) 18.2 (Brix 3.2, est sugar 37g)
ED 12: 17.0 (Brix 2.0, est sugar 23g)

Not very accurate we already know ED12 is 45 g/l in sugar.



Capn's Log: At first I thought you must have taken leave of your senses, as I'd I tried to make it clear that these tests were performed on VERY OLD bottles of rum, perhaps 8 years old, some of the first bottles we purchased back in 2006. The Finn/Swede tests are current, made on current production. That rums have changed in the last 8 years is a given, particularly since 2013 and the massive subsidies, and the ED's in particular. You'll also note that Z-23 hasn't changed much at all.

However, in rereading my post I said "... other than the Seales 10, all the other rums were very old, at least 6 or more years or even more." Oops! To be clear I should have said "...all the other rums were very old, PURCHASED at least 6 or more years ago or even more". Whew! Words are important. The needed clarification has been added above.

The tests are quite accurate. Hope that clears things up, thanks for catching that my friend. Crew, untie Dai from the mast...
The test might make a difference on older bottles I agree on that. Then you never stated the age of the test bottles. We all know that the recipe changes from time to time. I'm sure that rums like Lambs and Captain Morgan are different from the late 70's ones when I first started drinking. Your test might have a bit more validity (not that it doesn't) tested against a known rum with a known sugar content as well as your current test rums. Not that I'm saying you should run out and spend good money just to do your testing.




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Capn's Log: In a way that's already been done, as so far the Seales Ten has always received the lowest score in these rough comparisons. The validity, if any, will lie with the readings from the known test solution. As already noted, except for labelled alcohol content, the "known" rums' recipes and unlabelled additives are subject to change. The Finn/Swede tests are already history.
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