5.36(d) Dept: Does the TTB really give a crap?

This is the main discussion section. Grab yer cups! All hands on deck!
Post Reply
User avatar
Capn Jimbo
Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
Contact:

5.36(d) Dept: Does the TTB really give a crap?

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Our dear TTB is supposed to enforce the regulations, but do they?


No fackin way. We first learned this when the Commish was directly presented with clear and undeniable evidence that Ron Matusalem was breaking the law and adding prune and vanilla extract without labeling the product "flavored" in accord with the law. Why undeniable? Due to a lawsuit between the brothers who make and sell RM, both admitted the additions and the fact of this alteration appeared in the decision of our Federal 8th District Appellate Court.

The alteration was clear and undeniable. The TTB did absolutely nothing other than state they'd carefully examined and circular filed the data. Arseholes.


So WTF is 5.36(d)?

It's a regulatory requirement - not optional - that requires two simple things to appear on every label, without exception: first their name and address, which is always complied with. And second? According to Chuck Cowdery the regulation also requires that if the product is distilled elsewhere, the words "...distilled in (state)" MUST appear on the label.

Not optional: MANDATORY - but many of the Potemkins refuse to comply! WTF!?

Cowdery proceeds to point out blatant examples: Templeton (which we know), and two other Potemkin distillers - Tin Cum and Breckenridge. All go to great lengths to tell a story that seems completely authentic and convincing. They present as craft distillers using the usual ice cold mountain water and meticulously conceiving and producing fine "small batch" craft spirits. The extent of their misrepresentations (some would say outright lies) is extreme and almost beyond belief.

For proof, Cowdery offers this:
http://www.tincupwhiskey.com/

A paraphrased exerpt from the down home, country boy owner:
"I started distilling in 1972 with my neighbor's ten gallon still and began tinkering, learning about distilling, reading about it and experimenting. For almost 30 years this was my hobby until 2004 when it became my full time work. Tin Cup is my newest whiskey and I'm proud to share it with you.

Let me explain how whiskey gets made here.

I wanted to make an bourbon style whiskey but with a more powerful spicy flavor, so Tin Cup has a high rye mash bill. It's made with Midwestern grain, aged in new American oak, and cut with Rocky Mountain water, a nod to our Colorado miners who drank their whiskey out of tin cups."
This bushwa is followed by major sections dedicated to a video showing a local rocky creek, allegedly supplied by melting snow, plus another featuring a neighboring Colorado elk ranch. The snake oil pitch ends with a HUGE headlined video "We make whiskey and we drink it at our local tavern!"

All are designed to pitch this local rancher as just a friendly good old boy who loves to hunt elk, drink at the local tavern and whose distillery is alleged to be situated where the rocky creek full of cold mountain water terminates.


All of this is Elk Shit

These Potemkin distillers have almost nothing to do with their product. Quoting Cowdery: "...the product is bottled at the Stranahan Distillery... so they can use Colorado water (i.e., Denver tap water) to dilute it from barrel proof (about 65% ABV) to bottling proof (42% ABV), and thereby say it was 'made' in Colorado."

At this juncture none of us is really all that surprised, but what is really disturbing are two things...
  • 1. The extreme extent to which distillers are now reaching. And why?

    2. The fact that this mandatory regulation - 5.36(d) - is not being enforced by the TTB.
It's simple: the reg is there, it's mandatory, and it's being flouted by distillers who know the TTB doesn't give an elks's dropping about it. "Please lie all you want. We don't care, and we won't enforce our own regulations."




*******
http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/
http://www.tincupwhiskey.com/
https://www.breckenridgedistillery.com/hooch/

Major kudo's to Chuck Cowdery. Be sure to add his blog to your bookmarks...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Capn Jimbo
Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
Contact:

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Yes, there he goes again! And again, but fortunately moi is far from alone in focusing on such blatant dishonesty...


Dishonesty is always worth exposing. Keep lying distillers, and honest critics will keep posting - count on it. Such as dear Chuck Cowdery, with an even larger voice than I. Indeed, Ralfy too has taken up the worthy lance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZYL5ne ... HdRLA8JWZg
(start at 8:30 - 18:00)

A MUST watch, I assure you - Ralfy is pissed! BTW he comes to an amazing conclusion near the end. Let's see who finds it...

And as for you my dear friends, so should we all speak out. Let's face it - if enough rum drinkers had cared enough to speak out, perhaps we'd not now be facing the massive subsidies and the literal - and imminent - death of rum. I believe there are more bourbon drinkers , and surely more single malt drinkers who really do care, and care deeply.

As for me, and in order, I despise...

1. dishonesty
2. grandiosity and condescension
3. meaningless recitation of distillation 101 & 102

All meant to falsely impress. Your witness...




*******
Special note: I believe this link is also the one from which Dai obtained the "bourbon tree", credit to Dai!
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
da'rum
Minor God
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:09 pm

Post by da'rum »

I couldn't pick up what you were talking about Jimbo.

I like that Ralfy tackles the issue but he punches with 16 oz gloves. He's a bit shy of the big bad D ragon.
in goes your eye out
User avatar
Capn Jimbo
Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
Contact:

Post by Capn Jimbo »

You're right, he's not pounding the table...


...but his words and personal affect are devastating. His strong conclusion at 15:45 was...
Ralfy (after castigating Bulleit and Diageo)

"...transparency and honesty is really good marketing - yah - and it is perceived by whisky fans like myself... but that there's something a bit disingenuous, misleading and lacking in respect for the customer... so we'll leave it at that.

And what I'll do is for all further American bourbon reviews, nice and simple - for myself and for yourselves - I will only be reviewing (pause) from henceforth I will only be reviewing small distillery bourbons where I know for a fact that they are made at that distillery and bottled at the distillery.

You know, it's a shame. Big, big companies can make good whisky but it would taste even better if the big, big companies were just open and up front, and transparent - from the perspective of their customers which they relegate to the role of consumers..."
Why do I say he's pissed? He actually leaves a review to spend more than half the video on his rant. He as much as calls Diageo, et al, disrespectful liars. He repeated his points, slashes his hand and jabs his finger. He grimaces, raises his eyebrows - all with a rather serious affect, not his usual lighthearted delivery at all.

Not least, he walks away from ever again reviewing any Potemkin product or distillery. All said and to me anyway, that is as pissed as I've ever seen him. Keep in mind too that this is the video where he presents the bourbon tree in support. A great video.
User avatar
bearmark
Beermeister
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:35 pm
Location: Near Dallas Texas
Contact:

Post by bearmark »

He's going to be missing out on some great bourbon with this move. I could see him avoiding those that fail to label where the distillation is from, but this means that he'll miss out on High West, Smooth Ambler, Willett, etc. I think the ones that he should be avoiding are Breckinridge and those like them.
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
User avatar
Capn Jimbo
Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
Contact:

Post by Capn Jimbo »

An interesting point Bear...


And you should know. I hope you noted that after his rant, Ralfy named Balcones as a distiller he might review next. Is he really not going to review larger distillers who both distill and bottle the product? What does he mean by "small"? The video at issue is Ralfy's #482. Here's a link to all his bourbon video's:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ralfystuff ... ry=bourbon

About 20 bourbons. I'd hoped to see what bourbons he'd reviewed after #482, but unfortunately that appears this video is quite current as #483 is the latest. In this he re-reviews Evan Williams White 10 year, praising the bourbon and also Heaven Hill as an independent distillery who both made and bottled it.

Based on this survey of one it appears that the important factors for Ralfy is may less be the size of the distillery, but rather whether the bourbon is the product of in house distilling and bottling.

Bear, might that alter your observation above?
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Capn Jimbo
Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
Contact:

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Special Announcement: Ralfy's Latest #483...


...in which he continues his rant of #482, says "bullshit" at least two times, and spends nearly the whole of the video of something of great personal importance to him, and to the country of Scotland. What he reveals will surely affect us all in one way or another.

I won't spoil this first ever Ralfy video of its kind...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk18B0z ... HdRLA8JWZg
Post Reply