Phraya Deep Matured Gold Rum

bearmark · Post by **bearmark** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:20 pm

I just saw a bottle of this on the shelf for $41 and was wondering if anyone is familiar with it.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:08 pm

A very interesting find...

...however it's fair to say that the Asian rums are rather well known for serious alteration. Judge for yourself:

"Appearance
A vibrant, inviting golden-amber glow with a warm hint of copper.

Aroma
Sumptuous bouquet of vanilla, honey and coconut, with gentle but captivating spicy traces of cloves and raisins.

Flavour
Seductive creamy smoothness, brimming over with baked, toasty butterscotch notes and a suggestive tang of fresh pineapple and citrus.

Finish
Satisfyingly smooth with a delicate sweetness and pleasurable hints of spice, giving way to a luxurious, lingering vanilla ice cream finish."

The website is notably absent of fact, or process other than a marketing created "Deep Maturation" which tries to sell the notion of "sitting of our warehouses over cool lagoons, which effectively slows down the ageing process (!) - thus imparting the rum with a distinctive depth".

Emphases added (underlined). We don't know how this rum is made or from what. It is implied the age is anywhere from 7 to 12 years old, as barrels are "selected". The claim of a slowed down aging process is a curious one, similar to Flor de Cana "slow aging" claim. Either this is a backhanded way of saying that the rum is really older than claimed, or oddly younger by the "slowed down" aging over, uh, "cool lagoons".

Go figure. The descriptors underlined are really quite suspicious. Any time a rum claims notable vanilla or sweetness, it's altered.

Blade Rummer · Post by **Blade Rummer** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:44 pm

Don't know if it's what they intended, but those taste descriptors are making me hungry, not thirsty.

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:58 am

The website is cleverly void of any actual information, or any trace of what is the company/people behind this rum...

Forbes writer and a self-made "rum expert" Larry Olmsted has been quick to jump on the bandwagon, telling everyone of this "Asian rum miracle" which apparently has scored a zillion points from (unknown to me) rum experts. Naturally his "article" reveals no more details about the rum - or the people behind it. Duh...It's a bloody ad for the rum, nothing more.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmste ... -thailand/

I submitted my following comment in response to Mr. Olmsted's odd statement in the comments:

"Dear Mr. Olmsted, I'd like to point out that many outstanding rums are actually molasses-based, representing the "industriel" style rather than the "agricoles" made from cane juice. One has only to look at Demeraras, Caroni rum from Trinidad or some nice rums from Reunion to realize this. Phraya LOOKS nice, but the "article" gives us zero facts on the product. A no-age-statement bottling or rum from Thailand pops up, claims to contain distillates of certain age, and has a flavour profile suggesting added sugar, plus quite possibly a number of other (unmentioned) additives...Who's the mastermind behind this wonderful product? What company? What kind of stills are used? Where's the actual distillery? As the rum world is more than often filled with little more than empty superlatives, these are questions that come to the mind of a fan of Real Rums."

To me, it is very very difficult to find facts on this "rum" wonder. Seems more that they should just change the P in the beginning to a Z, and join the Z-rums we've seen.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Bravo!

JaRiMi pulls no punches, and it is posted comments like his that continue to spread the word. We might all follow his example...

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:34 am

Phraya is aged in oak barrels using a deep maturation technique uniquely developed to suit the tropical climate of south-east Asia.

Fundamental to this process is the sitting of our warehouses over cool lagoons, which effectively slows down the aging process - thus imparting the rum with a distinctive depth.

In a nut shell slower aging due to the water in the lagoons.
Bristol rum has an old quarry they use for aging under ground. Nothing new in the way rum is stored by Phraya then. Any rum rum stored in a colder climate like the UK would result in a slower aging.

Besides a hotter climate is suppose to be superior for aging in the first place. At least faster.

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:08 pm

Dai wrote:Phraya is aged in oak barrels using a deep maturation technique uniquely developed to suit the tropical climate of south-east Asia.

Fundamental to this process is the sitting of our warehouses over cool lagoons, which effectively slows down the aging process - thus imparting the rum with a distinctive depth.

In a nut shell slower aging due to the water in the lagoons.
Bristol rum has an old quarry they use for aging under ground. Nothing new in the way rum is stored by Phraya then. Any rum rum stored in a colder climate like the UK would result in a slower aging.

Besides a hotter climate is suppose to be superior for aging in the first place. At least faster.

Guys, have you been to Thailand? The picture they paint is that there are little shacks built over lagoons of Thailand - and have been doing so for more than 7 years.

A couple of pointers: If the surrounding air of Thailand is allowed to pass through the storage "shacks", then that air is HOT & HUMID - despite of the "lagoons" underneath (where the water temp is also btw really, really warm, like 28c in the sea or more than that in any "inland lagoons" which are bound to be shallow lakes in Thailand...or rice paddies (for this BS story, they surely account for lagoons). So nix, I see no superb natural cooling system here. No slow cooling. The only way to do this in Thailand is to store rum deep underground (probably not a good idea in most areas, since water is near ground), or have them sit in a warehouse with a good AC system.

Secondly, having been in Thailand a few times...where are these lovely custom-built shacks filled with casks of rum - over the lagoons? I have seen such places - but the shacks were full of tourists. I haven't seen any pics of these either anywhere...not even on the company's website or facebook page. Again, this REEKS of BS to a cynic like me.

What quarry does Bristol have and where? This is news to me, J.B. never mentioned it to me before. But yes, an underground location in not-so-tropical UK would allow for well, maybe not much cooler air apart from summer, but a more steady environment for aging stuff...Such is the meaning of a ground cellar. If done correctly in Finland, a ground cellar can keep stuff from freezing at winter, and from getting too hot in the summer. But shacks over lagoons in the tropic...well, I stayed in one a few times, and DAMN was it hot in there, despite of all the cooling waters

A hot climate ages stuff quick. Then again, I suspect that the stuff in Phraya bottles is nowhere near 7 years old - sadly.

PS: The company has not awoken to answer my posted questions on their website...I await to be removed from their "like" group soon for asking the wrong questions. Viva la rumstories...

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:16 pm

This all can be done a a different way: Here

http://www.chalongbayrum.com/index.html

is a link to Chalong Bay rum, also from Thailand. Their website is under contruction, and their rum is new, but look - already they tell where their distillery is at, give contact information etc. On their facebook page, they actually invite visitors to Thailand to come and see for themselves how the product is being made. They show pictures of their distillation equipment. I wrote to them asking for more details, I got answers immediately. Not bad! And no, their product is not laced with sugar..

mamajuana · Post by **mamajuana** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:29 pm

While the exact distillery information and age statement information may be questionable the product tested rather honestly per:

http://www.drecon.dk/index.php/17-list-of-rum-measured

PHRAYA 40 40,0 0-5

This would indicate no sugar added. Sang Som distillery produces this rum which is made specifically for export. While I agree there is a general lack of information it seems fairly legitimate based on these readings.

I personally bought a bottle of this rum about 6 months ago for 34.00 with a few others to round out an order. It looks very nice on a shelve so I have not cracked the bottle open yet.

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:52 am

What quarry does Bristol have and where? This is news to me, J.B. never mentioned it to me before. But yes, an underground location in not-so-tropical UK would allow for well, maybe not much cooler air apart from summer, but a more steady environment for aging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVehs45Mavk @2:40 on the time line Andy says there aging facility is an old disused quarry. How they age it in a quarry I'm not sure, so maybe it's my imagination running away with me when I say it's underground.

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:18 pm

mamajuana wrote:While the exact distillery information and age statement information may be questionable the product tested rather honestly per:

http://www.drecon.dk/index.php/17-list-of-rum-measured

PHRAYA 40 40,0 0-5

This would indicate no sugar added. Sang Som distillery produces this rum which is made specifically for export. While I agree there is a general lack of information it seems fairly legitimate based on these readings.

I personally bought a bottle of this rum about 6 months ago for 34.00 with a few others to round out an order. It looks very nice on a shelve so I have not cracked the bottle open yet.

Sam Song is the same wonderful company that has given the world "Mekhong whisky" - essentially a rum, because the spirit in it is cane-based, nothing to do with whisky. If you wish to get drunk in Thailand fast and with little money, it is a wonderful drink. As a whisky or rum, I'd rate it with 30 points out of a 100...No, make that 25.

C'mon...none of their fab brands stand to the test of chemists lab, nor any exposure to truth...."Thai magic" may be enough for thirsty tourists, but I would not really trust all that and this on what they say. After all, Mekhong was a "whisky" for decades...You mean to say they lied? Same same, but different..Sawaddee khap guys...

Rum-pelstiltskin · Post by **Rum-pelstiltskin** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:28 pm

JaRiMi wrote:
mamajuana wrote:While the exact distillery information and age statement information may be questionable the product tested rather honestly per:

http://www.drecon.dk/index.php/17-list-of-rum-measured

PHRAYA 40 40,0 0-5

This would indicate no sugar added. Sang Som distillery produces this rum which is made specifically for export. While I agree there is a general lack of information it seems fairly legitimate based on these readings.

I personally bought a bottle of this rum about 6 months ago for 34.00 with a few others to round out an order. It looks very nice on a shelve so I have not cracked the bottle open yet.
Sam Song is the same wonderful company that has given the world "Mekhong whisky" - essentially a rum, because the spirit in it is cane-based, nothing to do with whisky. If you wish to get drunk in Thailand fast and with little money, it is a wonderful drink. As a whisky or rum, I'd rate it with 30 points out of a 100...No, make that 25.

C'mon...none of their fab brands stand to the test of chemists lab, nor any exposure to truth...."Thai magic" may be enough for thirsty tourists, but I would not really trust all that and this on what they say. After all, Mekhong was a "whisky" for decades...You mean to say they lied? Same same, but different..Sawaddee khap guys...

Could you post some links where Mekhong is marketed by its makers as a Whisky?

I've always known it as "Thai Spirit" nothing more. Would be interesting to see how it's marketing has changed over the years

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:52 pm

On Johnny Drekon's listing of results..

Whilst I applaud that some people wish to find out the truth on how much sugar is in the spirit, I must say - from the perspective of accuracy, without a modern lab with really hi-tek equipment, the accuracy flies out of the window, it seems. Yes, one can get interesting results, but how accurate they are is a big question mark. Looking at BRUGAL 1888 for example:

ALKO LABS: Brugal 1888: 4, extract 1

JOHNNY HOMELAB: Sugal/Litre: 12g - alcohol, 37,5% (announced 40%).

Why do I wonder about this? Well, ALKO has a very low tolerance on any alcohol % variations - around 0,5% or below. Many, many times we've seen that a single cask or such that comes to Finland gets a slightly different alcohol percentage (like 0,65% lower) than when tested in some small inexpensive lab in the country of origin, and the result is a "no-sales permission" from Alko - until the label is modified. They are just about as much a stickler to these things as one might imagine a government, ministry-linked bureaucratic company could be. As is, if the label says 40% here in Finland, you can rest assured that the darn product is within +-0,5% within that - or the label must be changed. I doubt that Denmark would get a batch so different in % that its variation would be as much as 2,5% off. As is, I also wonder about the sugar / litre.

At best these tests with home lab equipment show SOMETHING - which means they show that there is sugar, or not. Accuracy seems to vary a lot, due to various reasons no doubt.

Rumpelstiltskin said something about Alko lab results (or alko) being far from not biased - well, this is a government-run monopoly that doesn't care about commercial aspects of life two craps worth. So they are sometimes a real pain in the rear - but mainly due to their slow processes, and bureaucracy - but not because of commercial bias. Here is a link to their lab info in English:

http://www.alko.fi/en/alko-inc/acl/

EDIT: Here is a link to what type of tests the Alko labs conduct, and the methods they use (which are accredited)>

http://www.finas.fi/Scopes/T007_M27_2014.pdf

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:00 pm

Rum-pelstiltskin wrote: Could you post some links where Mekhong is marketed by its makers as a Whisky?

I've always known it as "Thai Spirit" nothing more. Would be interesting to see how it's marketing has changed over the years

Please do use google and do the following search:

https://www.google.fi/search?q=s&ie=utf ... ng+whiskey

No doubt like I did, you will find numerous references to it as whisky/whiskey? Whether its makers nowadays call it a whisky, they certainly allowed it to gain name as one.

Here's but one of those companies that sells it as "whiskey":

http://www.thailandunique.com/store/tha ... -p-52.html

Even in Thailand, people tend to refer to it as "whisky", and interestingly wikipedia states the following:

"Despite being known as a whisky, Mekhong is in fact much closer to a rum. The distilled spirit is made from 95% sugar cane/molasses and 5% rice."

The company ads make fuss about the rice used in it, it seems. Oh well...It is indeed a spirit, and closest to rum - but often called whisky. Apparently not in UK then - or by its makers.? Go figure. What was the point? That it's MAKERS do not call it whisky? Everyone else does.