Hi there
Has anyone documented any blinded rum tastings? Ie, poored into a glass without knowing the brand, and then tasted and reviewed, then compared to previously published reviews?
Just curious how things would fare out.
Blind tastings
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The Fat Rum Pirate
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I don't really think it can be done all that well to be honest.
Even if you don't guess the exact rum it is its likely you will guess the style of rum it is and then the natural preferences and prejudices of man will creep in.
Many competitions use "Blind Tasting" as a caveat for a fair and open competiton. But neglect to say how many rums were actually tested.
I occasionally ask my wife to get me a drink and not tell me what it is, however once you've had a even one glass of another rum or even eaten it can radically change your initial tastes - especially when sipping. Even mood can change things. I tend to write my reviews when I'm in a good place. This doesn't mean all the rums get good scores but it means I'm not pre-occupied with other things and can concentrate on whatever is in the glass.
I have however sent a few samples to another rum writer in the UK to see what they made of some rums. Some they guessed the style and even the likely distilleries (one was Hampden Gold for example).
Re-visiting old rum reviews is a good idea though. The more rum you try the more you begin to appreciate the different styles and profiles available. Also in time you'll find your palate does become more attuned to rums.
This is one reason why I've never given a rum 5 stars. I'm still waiting for that rum which stands the test of time. I will be re-scoring a few of my rums over the next year. Some up but definitely some down.
Even if you don't guess the exact rum it is its likely you will guess the style of rum it is and then the natural preferences and prejudices of man will creep in.
Many competitions use "Blind Tasting" as a caveat for a fair and open competiton. But neglect to say how many rums were actually tested.
I occasionally ask my wife to get me a drink and not tell me what it is, however once you've had a even one glass of another rum or even eaten it can radically change your initial tastes - especially when sipping. Even mood can change things. I tend to write my reviews when I'm in a good place. This doesn't mean all the rums get good scores but it means I'm not pre-occupied with other things and can concentrate on whatever is in the glass.
I have however sent a few samples to another rum writer in the UK to see what they made of some rums. Some they guessed the style and even the likely distilleries (one was Hampden Gold for example).
Re-visiting old rum reviews is a good idea though. The more rum you try the more you begin to appreciate the different styles and profiles available. Also in time you'll find your palate does become more attuned to rums.
This is one reason why I've never given a rum 5 stars. I'm still waiting for that rum which stands the test of time. I will be re-scoring a few of my rums over the next year. Some up but definitely some down.
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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Another take...
In my opinion, blind tests are the gold standard. Indeed, one of the more competent resources is BTI (the Beverage Tasting Institute). All of their thousands of spirits undergo multi-level tastings - all blind - by a selected group of experienced tasters. See the reviewer's reviews at the top of the Scuttlebutt section. Most of the so-called competitions - at least the better ones - are all conducted blind. And that prejuduce can be dramatic. Think about it. The only difference in palate and experience between a blind and a known tasting is the prejudice of knowing who made it.
Example: vodka. By definition vodka is made to be a practically tasteless, neutral spirit. Any differences are really miniscule, yet there are any number of vodka drinkers who absolutely insist on their #1 choice. A number of top publications tested their resolve by having such drinkers blind taste a variety of vodkas from very expensive to bottom shelf (and which included their "must have" brand) and - you guessed it - none of them could identify their favorite, won't-drink-anything-else brand. In fact the most chosen brands were quite ordinary labels.
I even conducted a blind test with a good friend who brought his own "must-have" vodka, which I then poured blind with 3 or 4 other brands of my own, including one I actually made up by mixing ordinary grain neutral spirit with distilled water (to 40%)! He couldn't ID his own brand - in fact disliked it - and rated my made-up vodka as one of the top two. An interesting test was also conducted nationally with two red wines - a cheapie and a very expensive one - but the testers simply switched the bottles in a second test. In both cases the "expensive bottle" was preferred by the same group, even though the wines had been switched. Point made.
All of the factors noted by the Pirate are true, eg mood, environment, expectations etc., but all of these are in operation regardless. Knowing what you are drinking only adds layers of preconclusions, expectations and the like.
So what to do?
Although it's definitely possible to do a blind tasting even if one lives alone (just tape a number on the bottom of the glass), then close your eyes and mix the glasses up), in truth going to this extent may not necessary as long as you recognize that rum especially is mostly marketing, and that most of the so-called premiums are really just made up. And you must recognize that some of the very best rums are VERY affordable. Example: Barbancourt or any of the Seales' products.
What I think is MUCH more relevent (and practical) is to identify a reference standard for each style, and to compare it to your new acquisition (of the same style). I can't tell you how many times Sue Sea and I changed our ratings by doing that. At the main site we recommended reference rums based on wide consensus, but with experience you may well discover a rum of that style that you prefer, and thus becomes your own reference standard, until something better comes along.
I agree too with Pirate that until you develop your own palate (which you will), you might try to find a reviewer or two whose palates and preferences grow to match your own. Honestly, the reviews here are worth reading, as they are full of little tips as well. BTI's descriptors are a bit remote, but anything they score 90+ is definitely worth trying. F. Paul Pacult's marvelous book "Kindred Spirits 2" is a must buy for all the spirits. For rum, Dave Broom's "Rum" is the first book you should consider for his complete coverage of the history, tradition, methods and reviews from a true and unbiased and very accessible reviewer.
In my opinion, blind tests are the gold standard. Indeed, one of the more competent resources is BTI (the Beverage Tasting Institute). All of their thousands of spirits undergo multi-level tastings - all blind - by a selected group of experienced tasters. See the reviewer's reviews at the top of the Scuttlebutt section. Most of the so-called competitions - at least the better ones - are all conducted blind. And that prejuduce can be dramatic. Think about it. The only difference in palate and experience between a blind and a known tasting is the prejudice of knowing who made it.
Example: vodka. By definition vodka is made to be a practically tasteless, neutral spirit. Any differences are really miniscule, yet there are any number of vodka drinkers who absolutely insist on their #1 choice. A number of top publications tested their resolve by having such drinkers blind taste a variety of vodkas from very expensive to bottom shelf (and which included their "must have" brand) and - you guessed it - none of them could identify their favorite, won't-drink-anything-else brand. In fact the most chosen brands were quite ordinary labels.
I even conducted a blind test with a good friend who brought his own "must-have" vodka, which I then poured blind with 3 or 4 other brands of my own, including one I actually made up by mixing ordinary grain neutral spirit with distilled water (to 40%)! He couldn't ID his own brand - in fact disliked it - and rated my made-up vodka as one of the top two. An interesting test was also conducted nationally with two red wines - a cheapie and a very expensive one - but the testers simply switched the bottles in a second test. In both cases the "expensive bottle" was preferred by the same group, even though the wines had been switched. Point made.
All of the factors noted by the Pirate are true, eg mood, environment, expectations etc., but all of these are in operation regardless. Knowing what you are drinking only adds layers of preconclusions, expectations and the like.
So what to do?
Although it's definitely possible to do a blind tasting even if one lives alone (just tape a number on the bottom of the glass), then close your eyes and mix the glasses up), in truth going to this extent may not necessary as long as you recognize that rum especially is mostly marketing, and that most of the so-called premiums are really just made up. And you must recognize that some of the very best rums are VERY affordable. Example: Barbancourt or any of the Seales' products.
What I think is MUCH more relevent (and practical) is to identify a reference standard for each style, and to compare it to your new acquisition (of the same style). I can't tell you how many times Sue Sea and I changed our ratings by doing that. At the main site we recommended reference rums based on wide consensus, but with experience you may well discover a rum of that style that you prefer, and thus becomes your own reference standard, until something better comes along.
I agree too with Pirate that until you develop your own palate (which you will), you might try to find a reviewer or two whose palates and preferences grow to match your own. Honestly, the reviews here are worth reading, as they are full of little tips as well. BTI's descriptors are a bit remote, but anything they score 90+ is definitely worth trying. F. Paul Pacult's marvelous book "Kindred Spirits 2" is a must buy for all the spirits. For rum, Dave Broom's "Rum" is the first book you should consider for his complete coverage of the history, tradition, methods and reviews from a true and unbiased and very accessible reviewer.
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Wed May 13, 2015 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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rockydog101
- Oscar
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- Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:10 am
Man, thank you both kindly. I just loaded up the BTI rum reviews at your suggestion and am surprised and happy to see them. And it's great seeing $20 bottles of rum with great ratings. This will give me some good direction for trying different bottles.
My initial reading of rum reviews was Artcic Wolf, but I quickly began to doubt the validity of these because of how ridiculous they were. I think he's just more obsessed with jerking off to his own prose and the desire to be seen as someone important in the world of spirits than he is about actually tasting good rum. And apparently either his elbows don't flex or he's always carrying a large heavy invisible ball.
(Sorry, I had to.)
I read a few sites, Fat Rum Pirates, obviously here, MoR, Tiare's, TikiRoom, Inu a Kena(or whatever.) It's enjoyable to read about rum by people who love it.
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Incidentally and unrelated (I mention because one of their $20 offerings was ranked high by the BTI) I live about ten miles from Bayou Spirits (in no way associated with them). They just (within one month ago) released a Select (dark) rum that is aged 1.5 years in I believe bourbon barrels. Impressive to see, just dozens and dozens and dozens of huge barrels stacked 15-20 feet high. The rum is nice, if a bit sweet. Keep an eye out for it.
My initial reading of rum reviews was Artcic Wolf, but I quickly began to doubt the validity of these because of how ridiculous they were. I think he's just more obsessed with jerking off to his own prose and the desire to be seen as someone important in the world of spirits than he is about actually tasting good rum. And apparently either his elbows don't flex or he's always carrying a large heavy invisible ball.
(Sorry, I had to.)I read a few sites, Fat Rum Pirates, obviously here, MoR, Tiare's, TikiRoom, Inu a Kena(or whatever.) It's enjoyable to read about rum by people who love it.
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Incidentally and unrelated (I mention because one of their $20 offerings was ranked high by the BTI) I live about ten miles from Bayou Spirits (in no way associated with them). They just (within one month ago) released a Select (dark) rum that is aged 1.5 years in I believe bourbon barrels. Impressive to see, just dozens and dozens and dozens of huge barrels stacked 15-20 feet high. The rum is nice, if a bit sweet. Keep an eye out for it.
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The Fat Rum Pirate
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I'm comfortable in my reviews and at least a lack of conscious bias because I pay for all my stuff. One of the reasons why I no longer read The Rum Howler. He has never had a bad rum yet. It's all a bout freebies and really just makes a mockery of the whole reviewing process.rockydog101 wrote:Man, thank you both kindly. I just loaded up the BTI rum reviews at your suggestion and am surprised and happy to see them. And it's great seeing $20 bottles of rum with great ratings. This will give me some good direction for trying different bottles.
My initial reading of rum reviews was Artcic Wolf, but I quickly began to doubt the validity of these because of how ridiculous they were. I think he's just more obsessed with jerking off to his own prose and the desire to be seen as someone important in the world of spirits than he is about actually tasting good rum. And apparently either his elbows don't flex or he's always carrying a large heavy invisible ball.
I read a few sites, Fat Rum Pirates, obviously here, MoR, Tiare's, TikiRoom, Inu a Kena(or whatever.) It's enjoyable to read about rum by people who love it.
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Incidentally and unrelated (I mention because one of their $20 offerings was ranked high by the BTI) I live about ten miles from Bayou Spirits (in no way associated with them). They just (within one month ago) released a Select (dark) rum that is aged 1.5 years in I believe bourbon barrels. Impressive to see, just dozens and dozens and dozens of huge barrels stacked 15-20 feet high. The rum is nice, if a bit sweet. Keep an eye out for it.
Even if my reviews aren't perfect they are at least honest and written to engage people interested in rum rather than interested in selling their rum.
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rockydog101
- Oscar
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- Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:10 am
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bearmark
- Beermeister
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It's good to see the opposing views from TFRP and the Cap'n along with the general agreement regarding the kinds of things that can influence our perceptions of taste. I tend to agree with the warnings offered by TFRP, while recognizing the benefits described by the Cap'n. Personally, I'm more aligned with the Cap'n for the same reasons that he's stated and I find a blind test particularly useful in cases where you're comparing spirits that are supposed to be very similar (e.g. several vodkas, which are ideally supposed to be tasteless).
Another warning that I'd offer is that the order of tasting is significant... very significant! Whenever you conduct a blind test you should vary the order in sequential tastings of the candidates and attempt to "zero in" on a winner through a process of elimination. In my blind vodka tastings, I sampled each one several times in varying orders until I was able to identify the worst one. At that point, I eliminated it and focused on a successively smaller field of participants until I'd arrived at a ranking. I've found this process to work well for me and I hope that it's helpful to others who want to try a blind taste test.
Another warning that I'd offer is that the order of tasting is significant... very significant! Whenever you conduct a blind test you should vary the order in sequential tastings of the candidates and attempt to "zero in" on a winner through a process of elimination. In my blind vodka tastings, I sampled each one several times in varying orders until I was able to identify the worst one. At that point, I eliminated it and focused on a successively smaller field of participants until I'd arrived at a ranking. I've found this process to work well for me and I hope that it's helpful to others who want to try a blind taste test.
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)