Two in the Chest Dept: Tate wins a battle, but the war?

[Winston]

What batch? Thoughts?

[bearmark]

What batch? Thoughts?

It's batch 13-5. Plenty of oak tannins and spice... water opens it up a bit to push back the pepper and allow the fruits to show up more. Every time I drink this stuff it seems to have a very mild sherry influence with a bit of plum note. This is good stuff. As single malts go, I rate it a 3.5/5, "very good," where the 3 range is huge and the 5 range is very very small (i.e. standard bell curve). This is the best American malt whiskey I've tasted, with Corsair Triple Smoke and St. George's Lot 13 being other worthy mentions (others that are not in the same league are Stranahan's and J.J. Neukomm... still haven't opened McCarthy's or Wasmunds).

[Capn Jimbo]

A fit ending...


After all the smoke has cleared, it seems young Tate was all bluster and brimstone. His grandiosity knew no ends - from claiming his mixed reviewed experimental products would lead him to (quickly) become the next Balvenies or Macallan. That he had scrupulously found supportive investors who'd casually plunk down $10M toward his brass ring goal.

Despite all, he quickly came to extreme odds with his own hand selected board, which led to alleged threats of violence and destruction if he could not remain in absolute control. Next up, a temporary restraining order which torturously led to a protracted litigation in which Tate was unceremoniously bought out, and forced to sit out a 1-1/2 year no-compete.

Even litigation was a fail for Tate as he was forced to change law firms midstream when he didn't get his way, and clearly the replacement didn't do much better.

Tate ended up running up a bill approaching $26,000 with his original boyz, which he refused to pay on the grounds that he didn't like the outcome, and - no surprise now - is being sued by them. He claims to have no money, despite having just been bought out, and claiming he was going to "break ground" on a new distillery last month.

Not a word about that either. The funny thing is that this whole sordid affair seemed clear from the beginning, yet simply criticizing the boy genius became cause for ridicule and rejection.

But I remain exactly where I was before this whole mess devolved - a grandiose and peculiar young man with too much hat and not enough cattle...




*******
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/business/w ... d2598.html

Ya just gotta read this news report. Amazing but sadly true...

[Winston]

http://m.wacotrib.com/news/business/tat ... l?mode=jqm

[Capn Jimbo]

Talk about hitting bottom...


This guy is a candidate for D.A. (Distillers Anonymous). If he ever gets into recovery, he's gonna have a ton of amends to make. I mean seriously Winston, can't this guy get along with anyone? From his long time friend and his wife (Jared), to his handpicked investors, to the Chairman of the Board, to his first law firm - I mean really now.

And his fall from grace was far more serious than it first appeared, as it seems that he will be restricted or focused on brandy, hardly a growing or hot category. A sad, sad story of unlimited ego meets reality...




*******
Winston's link (just above) is a must read. Be prepared to be amazed...

[bearmark]

He has lined up a chief of staff, as well as two distillers whom he trained at Balcones.

I guess he hasn't ostracized everyone after all.

Be sure to check out the nice quotes from Winston at the end.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/business/e ... e7e44.html

[Capn Jimbo]

"Be sure to check out the nice quotes from Winston at the end.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/business/e ... e7e44.html

It is considered good taste and good PR to throw the guy you just demolished a bone. Tate being limited to making brandy is no competition whatever for Balcones. Winston is just showing proper good grace. I urge all readers to read the Waco article for real balance to see just how extreme and defeated, to what depths this young man has fallen.

I do hope he hits bottom, so he can engage in actual recovery, but I honestly doubt it. Such ongoing self-destructive actions do not bode well. This guy seems to be a walking lawsuit, antagonistic and ineffective but what do I know?

Plenty.

[bearmark]

Tate being limited to making brandy is no competition whatever for Balcones.

Hello... non-compete until March 2016! Of course this isn't competition for Balcones... that's forbidden by the courts, so what's your point?

Personally, I think it'll be interesting to see what the genius of Chip Tate can offer to the landscape of American brandy, which has surely struggled to compete with France, Spain, etc. There are good ones out there, but they can't demand the prices that the Europeans can at this point in time. After March 2016, I'll be looking for some brandy-finished bourbon (I know... it's not bourbon anymore ) or single malt to show up.

I think that it would be wise for both Balcones and Tate and Co. to avoid direct competition where possible. Balcones is clearly going for mass production in order to capitalize on the name that Chip built (sorry Winston, but them are the facts... although, as I've stated before, I believe that the furthering of that name is in large part to your marketing leadership). Their challenge will be to maintain the craft quality that they've delivered up to this point and it'll be interesting to see how they accomplish this. I think it's still too soon to tell. Tate and Co. appear to be more directly targeting the craft whisky community with no mass production plans in the near future. I expect them to take a more conservative approach based on the lessons learned by Chip with Balcones.

I do expect Balcones to continue to produce special offerings that compete with Tate and Co., but I don't expect Tate and Co. to target Balcones mainstay products (e.g. Rumble and Baby Blue). They're most likely to overlap with the single malt and bourbon. That's just my take on things.

Another expectation is for Balcones to begin to establish a new identity that isn't rooted in Chip Tate's legacy, while at the same time maintaining their strong link to this legacy. I'll expect some new products that we might not have ever seen from Chip and I'll be interested to see how these new offerings are embraced by Balcones fans (a divided base for sure), as well as, the whisky community in general. The notion that Jared can produce Chip's creations better than Chip could is disingenuous at best. While it's important that Jared be able to continue these offerings with the same quality (and I believe he can), Balcones' future is surely premised on what Jared (and Winston) can create on their own. It's time to find out what the new Balcones is all about.

These are the things that I'd like to start hearing about as, frankly, I've grown weary of the opportunistic attacks on Chip and the associated name calling. How about some actual productive conversation?

PS - I think it's unfortunate that Balcones has moved so quickly to remove all mentions of Chip on their bottles and in their historical perspective (i.e. Our Story). I don't know if that was part of the agreement, but I would capitalize on the reputation rather than distance myself from it. Again, that's just my view... possibly a naive one. This seems to have worked well for the bourbon industry where a few families (Beam, Van Winkle, etc.) are notably mentioned on several labels by various distillers.

[Winston]

Well, IIRC, it was proposed by several (including himself) that it was wrong of us to continue to sell Balcones with his name attached to it. So, they got what they wanted, in a sense. Can't please everyone though.

We do have some new products in the works. Can't tell you what they are yet...

[bearmark]

Well, IIRC, it was proposed by several (including himself) that it was wrong of us to continue to sell Balcones with his name attached to it. So, they got what they wanted, in a sense. Can't please everyone though.

We do have some new products in the works. Can't tell you what they are yet...

I figured as much and it's not surprising, considering that large egos were involved. Those of us who know will remember for some time so that we can tell our grandkids about The Big Texas Whiskey Showdown of 2014, a.k.a. The Gumfight Under the Waco Bridge (and, yes, I meant gum, not gun).

Definitely looking forward to the new stuff... I'll be anxiously anticipating the announcements... hopefully, not for too long.

[Capn Jimbo]

The idea that alleged boy-genius Tate has a "legacy" worth retaining or protecting is an oxymoron. Simply he was just another craft experimenter - among many - but one who got lucky, and if anything was a master self-promoter, and baiter, not a master distiller. His products were unique but received checkered reviews from those who count. That does not a genius or master make.

Any whisky product he produces in late 2016 cannot possibly be ready much before 2018 or 2019. Unless he has a personality implant, his legacy will be one of grandisosity and litigiousness.

And as Winston has correctly pointed out, he's so in love with his mirror image that he was the primary force for removing his checkered name from the product. The real force behind Balcones I think is/was the humble Jared Himstedt and his wife (another party Tate refuses to either acknowledge or pay).

What comes around goes around, and IMHO Tate is now paying a substantial debt of Karma. He is completely responsible for that which he accuses of others, despises so loudly and so insistently.

It's hard for me anyway to feel the least bit sorry for a budding young talent who dug his own grave.

[da'rum]

Interesting thread. Jimbo calls CT a train wreck and Bearmark calls him a genius. I think Jimbo has been very forceful and uncompromising in his reoccurring appraisal of CT and one can't help agreeing with the cantankerous obstinate captain. I think 'genius' is an abused word these days as CT didn't do anything to warrant the appellation. A recipe and distilling art does not a genius make. Where I think CT has won is in regards to the result of the fight and apparent self alienation. He has created a polarised audience to this tragic play. So now no matter what he has a steadfast loyal customer base that will forgive, or at least pull punches, when or if his next batch of whatever isn't amazing. Not to mention the hype and marketing advantage he will gain when eventually gets around to releasing his next whiskey. That stuff could be close to horse piss and he'll still get good first sales with some died in the wool supporters extolling it's virtues. So, if you are going to lose then lose spectacularly, as then you gain the underdog points and sympathy for when you get back on your feet.

[Capn Jimbo]

FWIW: "Balcones founder Tate alleges debt, defamation in lawsuit"

"Chip Tate, the ousted founder of Balcones Distilling Co., is suing his former distilling manager for defamation and asking a judge to rule against a claim by the manager’s wife that Tate owes her money"

versus...

"Jared has a passion for craft whiskey and for protecting the Balcones brand and its employees. His wife, Laura Himstedt, helped Mr. Tate to grow Balcones at a time when Mr. Tate desperately needed money. Himstedt said the defamation claims overstate his role in the publicity surrounding the Balcones dispute.

“I feel like I haven’t been quoted much at all,” he said.”

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/business/b ... 17722.html

Jared Himstedt was a long, long time close personal friend of the boy-genius, who produced much of the award winning product during Tate's frequent absences and world promotional travel. Himstedt's wife came through with much needed cash when Tate needed it.

Sheer ego and madness? You decide. A must, must read.

[Capn Jimbo]

I won't say I told you so...


...but I fackin told you so! Was I presicient? Maybe. Was I lucky? Maybe. But I was dead facking right. Like always I took a real drubbing for telling what I knew - as a former marketing man and based on my experience - as the truth as I saw it. I really don't give a flying fack if the boyz at Straight.bourbon, or Chuck Cowndery, et al agree with me. I know the truth, I saw the truth and I tell the truth. Don't like the truth? Then you don't like me. I don't care. The truth is more important than what you think of the Compleat Idiiot.

Finally - finally - the marvelous Whiskycast posted an amazng series of interviews: the first with Chip Tate giving his usual egoistical version of things, and finally, the very first interview with Greg Allen, the Chairman of the Board from his view. IMHO, Allen comes across as - by far - the more rational, the more fair, the more infomative of the two.

The MUST HEAR interview is here:

http://whiskycast.com/episode-510-december-8-2014/

Start at 13.00 - it will run over 1/2 hour - but I guarantee you that you will be both amazed and fully informed. Make your own judgement, but everything I first intuited about Mr. Boy-Genius was right on the mark. I've been there, I know the business, I know marketing and I know people.

Was I simply lucky in perceiving the truth? Maybe. But I was dead fackin right from the first word. Live with it....

[bearmark]

... and you were completely lucky having no first hand knowledge of any of the individuals or any of the products. I'm just saying.... you're bragging about nothing and you sound a bit like you're portrayal of Chip Tate... an egotistical know it all.

Being right about a lucky guess doesn't amount to a hill of beans. These are peoples lives that we're talking about and I feel badly for everyone involved. Chip has been ousted from the company that he founded. Both Winston and Jared have lost a friend (I'm sure many at Balcones feel this way, even if they're glad to be out from under the pressure). Unless Jared and his wife are independently wealthy, they've potentially lost a good bit of money. All around, this is tragic and I think it's time to start looking forward to better times.

Winston has said that having two distilleries in Waco is good for business and I think he's right. The success of Balcones and Tate & Co. can feed on each other to the point that at some point in the future I can hope that both can feel better about what has transpired and be able to put the past behind them.

Wouldn't that be better than the opportunistic reporting and gloating about stupid predictions that we're seeing today?