Enquiring Minds Dept: Berry Bros and Rudd at Total Wine

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:02 am

At $70 to $90 per copy, we have the right to know...

Actually we have the right to know regardless of price, but especially at these prices I dropped BBR the following email:

"Here in Florida, USA a number of your BBR rums are carried by Total Wine and Spirits. Do any of your rums contain unlabeled additives or flavorings of any kind? Do any use caramel coloring? How do you know? Thanks..."

Stay tuned...

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:37 pm

TW in the DC area (Laurel, MD, specifically) also has them. I suspect based on their rep with whisky, etc, that their rums are in fact unaltered. $70-$90 though....

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:43 pm

Caveat!

It's been my experience that when a distiller or rebottler of a fine spirit goes to the time, trouble and expense to arrange and obtain a pure and unadulterated spirit they are likely to say so. BBR does not, others do. Therefore, the email. But if anyone has a bottle and can verify its label, please do so...

Thanks in advance.

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:54 am

To my knowledge, the London-based Berry Brothers & Rudd rums are for the most part as honest as they can be, coming from an independent bottler who purchases casks to bottle from other sources.

Berry's rums are, to my knowledge, all selected by Mr. Doug McIvor - the same gentleman who selects their whiskies. I first met Mr. McIvor around 1998 in the Milroy's of Soho whisky store, where he was working at the time. He is a true gentleman, and very knowledgeable in spirits.

The Berry's rums I have come accross have been Caroni rums, old Demerara's, and some specials like a Port Morant, matured in a Laphroaig cask. Berry's has sourced these from reputable UK-based companies. If there has been any modification done to these, it would have been made at the source distillery - and this is quite unlikely I believe. The small companies that the casks have been bought from by Berry's in UK do not alter their rums.

Every rum I have tested from their selection has had the trademarks of non-altered rum: Dry, not sugary sweet, and tasting very authentic. Knowing the sources, I am not surprised. I have in my collection 3 different bottlings, and would wager good money that there's no alteration - apart from a 1975 Demerara, which no doubt has received at some point the traditional lump of burned sugars dumped into the cask at the distillery, to alter colour slightly. You find this in almost every old Demerara rum.

Whisky-wise, I have some 15 different whiskies from BBR selections. Every one of them is simply put incredible. Latest find was a heavily sherried single cask of 1976 Glen Grant - what a treat.

If you do visit London, do make the time to visit Berry's more than 300 years old store, still at the same location.

Count Silvio · Post by **Count Silvio** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:00 am

My experiences with Berry Bros have been similar to JaRiMis, some of them can even be very whisky-like in their flavour profiles.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:54 am

That was my assumption, but...

It's sure nice to hear it from those who know. Thanks...

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:36 pm

Spotted at TW

10 yo pure Jamaican pot still, Uitvlugt Demerara, and Enmore which they state is a pot still.

Strongly tempted to plop down 260 bucks on these...

*******
Capn's Log: Great pic, TW now owes me a royalty, lol. I was just looking at these yesterday, and if memory serves me the Utivlugt was produced with the French Savalle 4-column stills. As far as Jamaican goes the Smith & Cross is a better deal, but I'm very attracted to the 16 year Enmore.

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:50 am

Goodness! They have really expanded their selections of rum!!

Last time I visited the London shop, there were 3 rums available only.

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:42 pm

Capn's Log: Great pic, TW now owes me a royalty, lol. I was just looking at these yesterday, and if memory serves me the Utivlugt was produced with the French Savalle 4-column stills. As far as Jamaican goes the Smith & Cross is a better deal, but I'm very attracted to the 16 year Enmore.

Yes I did some research at Mountain of Crushed Ice, who has a great overview of DDL's stills, and Uitvlugt is indeed the Savalle column stills. There are two Enmore stills, one I believe is the wooden coffey, but the other, as mentioned on the Berry's bottle, is pot still, which means it's the wooden Versailles pot still.

Smith & Cross is certainly cheaper, but it's hardly aged - I'm very curious to see what 100% pot stilled, unaltered, 10 year old JA rum is like

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:51 pm

DDL Stills:

Agree on the S&C. However in reviewing the old distillery charts (2nd chart below) Versaille and Enmore were two different distilleries, with the Versaille Distillery using a single wooden pot still, and the Enmore distillery also using its own single wooden pot still (along with several wooden Coffeys). Thus when Berry refers to the 16 year being made with the Enmore wooden pot still they do not refer to the old Versaille pot (even though both the old Enmore and Versailles are referred to as "Versaille".

Perhaps Difford's Guide can solve the mystery:

Diffords: "Demerara Distillers boast nine different stills, acquired as Guyana’s other distilleries closed. These all give different characteristics allowing all types of rum - heavy pot stilled to very light rum to be produced. These stills include: three English two-column Coffey stills and two French Savalle four-column stills, but the Diamond Distillery is best known for its three wooden stills: a Port Mourant double wooden pot still, a Versailles single wooden pot still and an Enmore wooden Coffey still. These are the last operating wooden stills in the world but they are far from museum pieces with the distillate from the double wooden pot particularly in demand, though all run almost daily."

This makes clear that although Enmore did indeed have its own single wooden pot, only their wooden Coffey was preserve, while the current wooden pot is from the Versaille Estate. On that basis Berry's 16 "Enmore" might better be called the "Versaille". Unless - unless - 16 years ago (or a bit more) the old Enmore pot was still being used.

Based on JaRiMi's and the Count's opinion, Berry is an honest and competent bottle, and surely no idiot such as I, thus I'm tempted to believe them and voila!

Perhaps the Enmore still was in use 20 years ago. Tag!

The Charts

As far as the Guyana stills, these were published in detail long ago and since - here's the latest post:

http://rumproject.com/rumforum//viewtop ... ddl+stills

Once again...

(Credit: Cocktails Old Fashioned)

Legend:

Goldenrod: "Dominant"
Green: "Included

(Credit: Cocktails Old Fashioned)

From these charts the differences in the El Dorados are made clear. No one should doubt that different stills, of different materials, in different locations, and of different sizes and contruction cannot make the same rum.

Please also note that most of these are old, sometime leaky stills and are in sometimes dilapidated buildings. DDL is building (or has by now built) a large modern column still. This information has been well known for years. No real reviewer should ever omit this information on any real discussion of the Demeraran rums.

*******
Special Note: The original and most complete article about these stills - to the best of my knowledge - was and remains Cocktails Old Fashioned (German). Now as much as I love Mountain of Crushed Ice, and dear Tiare (with whom I've communicated for some years), her article is largely borrowed from Cocktails Old Fashioned, without credit. I won't make that mistake...

http://www.cocktailsoldfashioned.de/201 ... uyana-rum/

More: for an absolutely brilliant description - the best yet of the current stills, you can do no better than Difford's Guid:

http://www.diffordsguide.com/beer-wine- ... illers-ltd

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:59 pm

More stuff...

I will later today stop by again at TW to check out the "Enmore 16", but at BB&R's site:

"Berry Bros. & Rudd takes pride in selecting only the most exceptional casks of fine Rum for our Berrys Own selection Rum. This Demerara ran from the Enmore pot still in 1988 and has been matured for 19 years prior to bottling at the optimum drinking strength of 46%. We have chosen not to artificially colour or chillfilter the spirit, retaining a fuller, more authentic flavour. The heavy bouquet holds subtle wood notes, some smokiness and burnt molasses. The palate gives dry, toasted spice and a long smooth finish."

However when Dave Broom visited Guyana circa 2000 he noted that the only remaining wooden single pot was from Versaille. If we accept both sources that means the Enmore was no more sometime in the twelve years from 1988 to 2000, and that TW's current 16 year Enmore was bottled before 1997, certainly possible.

Anybody got anything, anyhow anyway?

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:57 pm

It is so strange that the history of different stills used at DDl are still quite such a confusion to all of us - because surely someone from the country of Guyana, and from the distillery could set all the records straight. Then again, I think its a combo of Caribbean laissez-faire, and pure amazement of "why de hell do these guys fuss about our old stills" being the reason why we do not get these facts out of Guyana and DDL!

I've got an interesting bottle:

Cadenheads 28yo Guyanan rum, PDW distillery, 63,2%

PDW?

In this website I see one of the most comprehensive listings of cadenhead's rum bottlings:

http://barrel-aged-thoughts.blogspot.fi ... heads.html

Quoting the ones from Guyana:

Guyana:
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Caribbean Distillers PDW 15 YO (1987 - 2003) - 63% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Caribbean Distillers PDW 28 YO (1972 - 2001) - 63,2% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Caribbean Distillers PDW 29 YO (1972 - 2002) - 60,9% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Caribbean Distillers PDW 30 YO (1972 - 2003) - 53,1% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery AWM 16 YO (1988 - 2005) - 64,9% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery AWM 18 YO (1988 - 2007) - 63,3% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery KFM 12 YO (1991 - 2002) - 66% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery KFM 16 YO (1991 - 2008) - 63,9% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery REV 11 YO (1994 - 2006) - 70,0% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery VSG 10 YO (1990 - 2001) - 75,7% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery VSG 11 YO (1990 - 2002) - 74,2% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery VSG 13 YO (1990 - 2004) - 71,6% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery VSG 15 YO (1990 - 2006) - 72,5% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery VNL 30 YO (1962 - 1992) - 62,9% vol. (Column Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery VNL 36 YO (1962 - 1998) - 62,9% vol. (Column Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery XPD 28 YO (1971 - 1999) - 67,1% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery XPD 29 YO (1971 - 2000) - 64,7% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Enmore Distillery XPD 32 YO (1971 - 2003) - 61,8% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery MPM 12 YO (1998 - 2010) - 62,0% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery PM 14 YO (1991 - 2006) - 70,7% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery GM 24 YO (1975 - 1999) - 69% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery GM 25 YO (1975 - 2000) - 70,2% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery PM 30 YO (1965 - 1995) - 73,3% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery GM 30 YO (1974 - 2005) - 60,3% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery GM 30 YO (?? - ??) - 61,5% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from Uitvlugt Distillery PM 36 YO (1964 - 2001) - 69,3% vol. (Pot Still)
- Cadenhead's Cask Strength from ? 15YO (? - ?) - 69,2% vol. (?? Still)

John Willy · Post by **John Willy** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:08 pm

Being the ignorant child I am, other than the 'over-proofs', I had no idea rums of such strength existed. I don't want to even guess at the costs.

JaRiMi, I would love to hear your opinion if/when you open your Cadenheads bottle.

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:38 pm

I finally bit the bullet and bought the Jamaican and the Enmore. Have not tried them yet, but will report back...

Oddly enough, the Enmore says JAMAICAN RUM on the back label, but then the detailed writeup says "This powerful flavoured Demerara rum was produced at the Diamond distillery in Georgetown using one of their traditional Versailles pot stills." Typo on the part of Berry Bros & Rudd?

I suspect that the Versailles pot still ended up at Enmore distillery before DDL consolidated everything, by the way. Hence the nomenclature.

The actual Jamaican says: "This fine Jamaican pot still Rum comes from the Monymusk estate, one of the oldest plantations on the island. In the 1890's 146 distilleries existed but today only 6 survive."

I've not really read much about Monymusk, but their site has a fair amount of information: http://monymuskrums.com/aboutus - seems they specialize in bulk sales, and their pot stilled stuff is distilled from spontaneously fermented wash, but no mention of dunder.