Exposed: vintage La Favorite "rhums" and sugar...

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Capn Jimbo
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Exposed: vintage La Favorite "rhums" and sugar...

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Another domino falls...


This time it's the Preacher's La Favorite - no not the hard-to-find current issues he alleges to represent - but a couple old vintages: one 20 years of age and two others at 30 and at 35 years.

Per Cyril:
  • La Favorite 20 year: 49g
    La Favorite 30 & 35 year: 45g
That's a TON of sugar in two very expensive cane juice rums. According to Cyril both carry AOC designations, but it is interesting to note that these rums predated the actual institution of AOC in Martinique. Curious, wouldn't you say. In a spirit of fairness, Cyril states he even contacted La Favorite who he states admitted alteration with an old "recipe" that was alledged to include "spices and natural candied fruits" and all "authorized by the AOC".

Good friends, that is a simply stunning reveal by our own Cyril, webmaster of DuRhum.com. Cyril is meticulous and fair, but decided to test these three because he simply couldn't believe their sweetness could possibly be produced by distillation and aging alone.

He was right. Would someone consider raising this issue over at the Shillery?




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Dai
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Post by Dai »

Like I always say once educated we can take what ever buying decision we feel fit and I won't be buying any of these adulterated rums.
Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect!

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Post by cyril »

to go further, La Favorite (which is one of the 2 remaining family owned distilleries in Martinique, with Neisson) also produce 'clean' rhums, the sugar only concerns (for now) their hors d'âge (cuvée Privilege, des Cavistes, and La Flibuste)

Only La Privilege is AOC (its written on the bottle's label), la cuvée des cavistes is Appellation d'Origine Martinique.

And for now, i didnt find any rhums with that amount of sugar, only a few with 10-15, and a lot with 0
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Post by edgarallanpoe »

So, I was considering buying a couple bottles of the La Favorite. Unfortunately, the only way I could get them is to order 6 bottles of each style I would like. This stuff isn't cheap, so I ask...is it worth the price and commitment to the brand to order $180 dollars worth of their basic rhum?

What other brands would you recommend in this style?
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Well...


...to me, it seems a real turkey shoot to be forced to buy 6 bottles just to find out whether you like your first dram of it. My suggestion: unless you are an experienced taster of cane juice rums, why not start off with Barbancourt's lovely young "White Rum", their four year Three Star and/or the Five Star eight year.

All are made with great care, with the 3 and 5 star aged much longer than the expensive Matinique offerings. And frankly, all three together won't cost much more than a single bottle a La Favorite. Not only will you get a taste for what fine cane juice rum can taste like, but you will be able to conduct a vertical tasting of the same distillate at different ages.

A mini-master class of a known and well respected cane juice.
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Post by edgarallanpoe »

Sounds like a great suggestion, thanks.
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Post by cyril »

6 bottles for something you may not like... :(
From what i heard, today Barbancourt aint producing 100% canejuice rum anymore, but a sort of mix canejuice/molasses (how can they produce that much of aged spirit without a big stock since the earthquake, there's no secret). But still a good product tho.

i think u can find some agricole rhums where u live ? stuff like JM, Clement,... their XO are pretty good
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Re: Exposed: vintage La Favorite "rhums" and suga

Post by JaRiMi »

Capn Jimbo wrote:Another domino falls...

In a spirit of fairness, Cyril states he even contacted La Favorite who he states admitted alteration with an old "recipe" that was alledged to include "spices and natural candied fruits" and all "authorized by the AOC".
I was under the impression that AOC Martinique does not allow ANY additives - including any sugar. ???
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

cyril wrote:From what i heard, today Barbancourt isn't producing 100% cane juice rum anymore, but a sort of mix cane juice/molasses (how can they produce that much of aged spirit without a big stock since the earthquake, there's no secret). But still a good product tho.
I have not heard this; nor do I believe it. As far as I am concerned, Barbancourt remains a cane juice rum. The only party that has ever denied this - in defense of his two puny Martinique rums - was the Preacher who "heard" that Barbancourt was alleged to use a bit of cane juice syrup (dehydrated cane juice) for the purpose of distilling schedules.

That allegation was, is and remains hearsay, with no citations or real proof of any kind. To the contrary, the Preacher's own site stated that Saint James (Martinique) DID use syrup for this very purpose.

Don't believe it.
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Post by mamajuana »

I just polished off a bottle of Rhum Barbancourt white I found a week or so ago in a liquor store. The white is rather hard to find these days it seems. The bottle states 100% sugar cane juice fully pot distilled.

I had polished off a bottle of cana de cuca Cachaca before the Barbancourt. As a fairly experienced taster of sugar cane spirits of all types I would rate the Cachaca higher even though it was a 1L bottle and 25% cheaper.

The Barbancourt white while offering a nice flavor and clear pot distilled taste was rather muted in terms of flavor I would expect of a pure sugar cane juice derived product. Whether this is a change or a style or production method difference from that of Brazil, Martinique, Guadeloupe, other French Indies Islands, USA, and well really every pure sugar cane juice derived rum I have ever had, I'm not sure.

I felt personally on a tasting level that this was closer in terms of flavor (much closer) to a molasses or cane sugar derived rum than say to a Rhum JM, Clement, St. James, any Cachaca I have ever had etc. I would put this closer to a mild Barbados white offering than a French Indies cane juice rum.

That said by no means am I bashing the Barbancourt it is an excellent product but I don't personally believe at least in its white expression that is personifies the cane to is utmost vigor. I am by no means claiming it is not pure sugar cane juice as I have no proof just closer in flavor to a molasses based rum which may be why it is suggested if you never tasted more full flavored variations.

I would recommend in PA the "cana de cuca Cachaca". It is imported and bottled by a company in PA and is an incredible steal for a pure spirit at about 15.00 or less per liter. While not incredibly complex it has an amazing nose and taste and mixes incredibly well creating excellent drinks if that's your thing. It is produced by a very reputable Cachaca maker and is organic with no additives present. The flavor is incredible. I would rate this a better buy than some 100+ dollar bottles of Cachaca I bought.

My last bottle of it "La Favorite Rhum Agricole Vieux" was something like 60 dollars for a Rhum blend aged 3-14 years. Not a bad Rhum by any means lots of flavor very spicy, lots of dry fruits, not as funky as a white which I tend to prefer. Guess it depends on what type of the Rhum you are getting for 180 dollars.
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Post by Blade Rummer »

Interesting take on it, mamajuana. I'm not really familiar with other cane juice rums, although from what I've heard Barbancourt rums are somewhat different in profile and not typical of most cane juice rums? Or did you mean that you've found a difference in their white rum over time?

From their site :

"La Societe du Rhum Barbancourt prides itself on producing it’s rums from pure sugar cane juice, no molasses. The sugar cane is harvested from November to June and comes uniquely from la plaine du cul de sac. This region produces a unique sugar cane variety that gives the distinctive bouquet and aromas so particular to Rhum Barbancourt."

And like you say, their bottles are always advertised as 100% cane juice. Sadly though, with the state of honesty in rum, would it really be that surprising?

For myself, I remain a fan, and unless it's proven they are adulterating their products or using misleading advertisements, I'll keep buying their products.
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Post by edgarallanpoe »

I would recommend in PA the "cana de cuca Cachaca". It is imported and bottled by a company in PA and is an incredible steal for a pure spirit at about 15.00 or less per liter.
Huge thanks for this. I can special order this and I only have to order 2 bottles of it. $30 is much easier handled than $180...I am a teacher and haven't been paid since June 6th. rofl. Needless to say, the funds are about gone for the summer. HAHAH!!!
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Post by edgarallanpoe »

Oh, and I only have easy access to the 8 and 15 yr Barbancourt. The rest are special orders of no less than 12 bottles. Ugh
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

The facts about cane juice...


1. First it is well to remember that cane juice rums should be attributed to two main origins: the many thousands of cachacas of Brazil, and the clarins of Haiti. Cachaca - now regulated - is distilled to from 38-54%; Clarin - add perhaps another 5 or 6%.

2. While cachacas retain much of this harshness (and origin), for the past 150 years Barbancourt took the next step via their double distillations, using the French Charentais double distillation method (a very selective double distillation using finer cuts and redistillation). In this way the heart of hearts is retained, while low alcohol elements of the hearts (60%) are recycled through the process.

The Charentais method is labor intensive and far more selective than even ordinary double distillation with a pot still. It results in a highly refined, selective and sophisticated cut of the cane juice distillate.

3. Compare to cachacas which are often a single column distillation to 38-54% and which contains some of the harsher elements (all the hearts, and often includes a certain amount of heads and tails as well). Thus unaged cachaca - though certainly identifiable from its profile (which legally may include smoothing sugar) - is not really intended to by sipped, but ends up in the ubiquitous Brazilian caiparinha (with sugar and lots of fresh lime juice).

With tens of thousands of cachaca's available, with all manner of aging (if any) in all manner of woods, do note that most of us will be forced to drink only the big money, highly marketed few that make it here. My Brazilian friends laugh at our shelves.

4. Actually Barbancourt White as currently made starts out as a roughly 60% clarin (that would be VERY similar to cachaca), but then undergoes a second distillation closer to 90% and the heart of hearts. I can tell you that this white is VERY sippable, while still retaining enough of its fresh cane juice heritage to remind you where this refined spirit came from. The Three and Five Stars are aged for a much longer time than almost all cachacas, and most Martiniqean rhums by regulation, in very expensive French Limosin Oak, which has sophisticated and effective subtractive, additive and interactive new esters nearly unique to Barbancourt.

5. Compare to the Martiniquean cane juice rums. While Barbancourt really pioneered the modern cane juice rums over 150 years ago, the AOC method and faux certification only came into existence in the early 1990's. These - like cachaca - are a single column of 5 to 9 plates, with distillation to 65 to 75%. A "vieux" (aged) AOC must only be aged for just 3 years, and may use rather large barrels (up to 650 liters or 172 gallons). This allow much less time, and much less good wood effect than Barbancourt. The AOC does not specify wood other than oak.


Flat Ass Bottom Line

All of the above orginate with cane juice. In terms of distillation refinement, in order:

1. Cachaca (single column) or Haitian Clairin (pot) (38 to 60%), single column (very few pot stills)
2. AOC single column cane juice rums (65-75%)
3. Barbancourt Charentais double-distilled method (column/pot) (90%)

Add to that Barbancourt's extended aging in very fine wood and the sophistication and worldwide acclaim of the labor intensive Barbancourt cane juice rums should not be a surprise. Comparing cachaca to Barbancourt is like comparing moonshine to a fine bourbon. What we have here are three different approaches to distilling and aging cane juice rums, from crude and rather harsh, to quite sophisticated.

That Barbancourt sells for just $20 is truly a miracle and godsend to us all.

Any thought of or comparison to molasses rums are not supported by the actuality of the spirits produced, short of the fact that both (along with whisky) can be well aged in wood (and may share some of the common wood effects like vanillan, raisin, banana, et al). But as for molasses?

Not at all.




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Martiniqean Rums-by-Regulation:
http://rumproject.com/rumforum//viewtopic.php?t=21

Charentais process example:
http://www.pediacognac.com/en/la-distil ... arentaise/
http://www.pediacognac.com/en/la-distil ... harentais/

Barbancourt:
http://barbancourt.net/rhum-barbancourt ... ?langue=en
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Capn Jimbo
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

BTW, the best deal I know of for cachaca...


Is Seagram's "Brazilian Rum". Although labelled a "rum" by our dear TTB, for all practical purposes this is a quite drinkable cachaca that you can often find for under $10, closeout (Seagram's no longer make it). At that price, buy at least one, you'll be going back for more.

Note: by Brazilian law "cachaca" must be distilled to 38-54%; Seagram's "rum" is distilled to just one more percent (55%); ergo if cachaca is sex, Seagram's is pregnant, lol...
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