Looking to maybe buy a Berry's

edgarallanpoe · Post by **edgarallanpoe** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:48 pm

Any thoughts on these? Worth the ducats? All opinions welcome.

http://www.finewineandgoodspirits.com/w ... tegory_rn=

http://www.finewineandgoodspirits.com/w ... tegory_rn=

http://www.finewineandgoodspirits.com/w ... tegory_rn=

http://www.finewineandgoodspirits.com/w ... tegory_rn=

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:09 pm

I've a bottle of the Barbados 12 (older bottling than this 11) and the St Lucia 11. I only picked them up the other day so haven't tried them.

The Barbados rum comes from WIRD rather than Foursquare but I thoroughly enjoyed the Cockspur 12 year old so expect this to be decent as well.

Likewise an 11 year old rum from St Lucia Distillers should be good.

I only paid £40 per bottle so got a bit of a bargain.

mamajuana · Post by **mamajuana** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:06 pm

The only two I could say to try are the St Lucia 11 year and the Guadalupe 12 year. There are better Barbados bottles available such as the Real McCoy 12 year which really is a much better bottle at half the cost. But if I really had to recommend a rum on that website it would be a rum I tried once at a rum bar once. It's expensive but much, much better than the Berry offering St Lucia. Its Blackadder St Lucia Rum 136 Proof. This rum was amazing wish I could find a bottle to buy, its a cask proof 12 year old St Lucian rum, it seems PA lets you order this bottle, at 150 its an expense but the extra proof will make more mixed drinks stretching this bottle much further than a 40 proof offering, if you can really get one I suggest it.

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:37 am

mamajuana wrote:The only two I could say to try are the St Lucia 11 year and the Guadalupe 12 year. There are better Barbados bottles available such as the Real McCoy 12 year which really is a much better bottle at half the cost. But if I really had to recommend a rum on that website it would be a rum I tried once at a rum bar once. It's expensive but much, much better than the Berry offering St Lucia. Its Blackadder St Lucia Rum 136 Proof. This rum was amazing wish I could find a bottle to buy, its a cask proof 12 year old St Lucian rum, it seems PA lets you order this bottle, at 150 its an expense but the extra proof will make more mixed drinks stretching this bottle much further than a 40 proof offering, if you can really get one I suggest it.

I've a bottle of the Real McCoy 12 so tell me Mama what are the differences between the RM12 and the Berry's 12 Year Old.

Likewise how is the St Lucia 11?

mamajuana · Post by **mamajuana** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:34 am

The main difference we have is rather obvious, that being the price. Both of these rums are produced at four square distillery (at least the 11 year available in the USA). The color is striking in difference also, the McCoy is several shades darker possibly from the extra year of tropical aging. While the McCoy line I enjoy personally because it expresses more so in the 3 and 12 year that Traditional Bajan vigor in the bite on your palate, the Berry's is Bajan clearly in style but shows more fruit on the palate I get green apple, Mango, and Papaya? The result is from their cask choosing and blending. I have not finished the Berry's as I tend to savor the more expensive bottles over months if not years at this point, but the fruit in it is quite clear. So its all about preference here really I enjoy a rum that shows more spice from Barbados which the McCoy 12 offers more of really.

So we have two rums from the same distillery, both a mix of pot and column stills, one aged a year longer, 1 with a slightly higher proof. Both I enjoy really equally but a slight edge I feel to 12 year with its spice and stronger Bajan bite and more classic to the style in its blending in Barbados. The main factor here in my statement is that at my local liquor super market I could get over two bottles of the McCoy a rum I would rate currently on equal footing to one bottle of the Berry's.

With regard to the St. Lucia 11 I only suggest this as its one of the best of the four available in his State. We in many states outside of PA are spoiled to have Ed Hamilton's Cask strength St. Lucian offerings. Ask anyone if a watered down St. Lucian rum can compare to a Cask Strength offering such as what I have proposed to purchase. The market here spoke for itself when the first waves of the cask strength sold out nearly as soon as they went to market. While both pot still rums, one here slightly older and still a solid rum even if rather funky and different still a solid rum worth trying as it does offer different notes while nowhere near as intense. Had the 10 year Cask strength 100% Hamilton Vendome pot still rums been on offer by the PA liquor authority I would have suggested 2 of those at nearly the same cost instead. I'm glad I got two when I did as they are probably gone at this point. I only hope to find some special oddity when I visit St. Lucia and its Distillery next month.

While no means a Bashing to Berry's as I own many of their rums and do enjoy them, there are just better options here in the USA for the price they ask and if I'm asked for a recommendation I'm going to recommend something that is not over priced compared to what is readily available in that market. You snapping these up for 40 pounds each sounds like a steal that is just not available here. The price here for those rums is nearly double and our offerings are aged for less time.

edgarallanpoe · Post by **edgarallanpoe** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:53 am

Bummer...I can get The Real Mccoy 12 for $50 but the idiots at the state level are making me buy 6 bottles. rofl

Sooo...I have some decisions to make. Just to let everyone know why I am doing this... I am a volleyball coach and my season is now over. Every year I allow myself a treat with my volleyball coaching pay. This isn't something I can afford on a regular basis so I would like to make this count.

The decision is boiling down to this...

1. A Bottle of Berry's at $100+ depending on the bottle I choose.
2. A bottle of Blackadder at $150
3. 6 bottles of the 12 yr Real McCoy at $50...so $300+

I *might* be able to get some friends into the fold and split the cost of some of the Real McCoy. If I can get some local friends to take 3 bottles, then it looks like that will be the way I lean.

OR...I can make another Rum run to West Virginia and pick up some more Revelation Rum from Smooth Ambler.

Keep the suggestions coming folks...

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:09 pm

mamajuana wrote:The main difference we have is rather obvious, that being the price. Both of these rums are produced at four square distillery (at least the 11 year available in the USA). The color is striking in difference also, the McCoy is several shades darker possibly from the extra year of tropical aging. While the McCoy line I enjoy personally because it expresses more so in the 3 and 12 year that Traditional Bajan vigor in the bite on your palate, the Berry's is Bajan clearly in style but shows more fruit on the palate I get green apple, Mango, and Papaya? The result is from their cask choosing and blending. I have not finished the Berry's as I tend to savor the more expensive bottles over months if not years at this point, but the fruit in it is quite clear. So its all about preference here really I enjoy a rum that shows more spice from Barbados which the McCoy 12 offers more of really.

So we have two rums from the same distillery, both a mix of pot and column stills, one aged a year longer, 1 with a slightly higher proof. Both I enjoy really equally but a slight edge I feel to 12 year with its spice and stronger Bajan bite and more classic to the style in its blending in Barbados. The main factor here in my statement is that at my local liquor super market I could get over two bottles of the McCoy a rum I would rate currently on equal footing to one bottle of the Berry's.

With regard to the St. Lucia 11 I only suggest this as its one of the best of the four available in his State. We in many states outside of PA are spoiled to have Ed Hamilton's Cask strength St. Lucian offerings. Ask anyone if a watered down St. Lucian rum can compare to a Cask Strength offering such as what I have proposed to purchase. The market here spoke for itself when the first waves of the cask strength sold out nearly as soon as they went to market. While both pot still rums, one here slightly older and still a solid rum even if rather funky and different still a solid rum worth trying as it does offer different notes while nowhere near as intense. Had the 10 year Cask strength 100% Hamilton Vendome pot still rums been on offer by the PA liquor authority I would have suggested 2 of those at nearly the same cost instead. I'm glad I got two when I did as they are probably gone at this point. I only hope to find some special oddity when I visit St. Lucia and its Distillery next month.

While no means a Bashing to Berry's as I own many of their rums and do enjoy them, there are just better options here in the USA for the price they ask and if I'm asked for a recommendation I'm going to recommend something that is not over priced compared to what is readily available in that market. You snapping these up for 40 pounds each sounds like a steal that is just not available here. The price here for those rums is nearly double and our offerings are aged for less time.

The 12 I have is also from Foursquare (I've almost had it confirmed anyway) however its aged for most of its 12 years here in England rather than in the tropics. However, that is not the only reason for the difference in colour between the rum and Real McCoy 12 - for the American market caramel is added.

I guess it probably will come down to price and whether you can get a similar rum for half the price will be a big sticking point. If you aren't that familiar with Bajan rum then Real McCoy is a good starting point.

edgarallanpoe · Post by **edgarallanpoe** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:41 pm

The 12 I have is also from Foursquare (I've almost had it confirmed anyway) however its aged for most of its 12 years here in England rather than in the tropics. However, that is not the only reason for the difference in colour between the rum and Real McCoy 12 - for the American market caramel is added.

Caramel is added to the Real McCoy or the Barry's? If it's the Real McCoy then this statement on their website "The rum is completely unadulterated" is a bunch of shiiite then.

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:23 am

edgarallanpoe wrote:
The 12 I have is also from Foursquare (I've almost had it confirmed anyway) however its aged for most of its 12 years here in England rather than in the tropics. However, that is not the only reason for the difference in colour between the rum and Real McCoy 12 - for the American market caramel is added.
Caramel is added to the Real McCoy or the Barry's? If it's the Real McCoy then this statement on their website "The rum is completely unadulterated" is a bunch of shiiite then.

The Real McCoy has caramel added solely to colour the spirit it adds no flavour and it is well within any regulations.

edgarallanpoe · Post by **edgarallanpoe** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:03 am

The Real McCoy has caramel added solely to colour the spirit it adds no flavour and it is well within any regulations.

But being withing regulations really isn't the point. They say *completely* unadulterated. If they are adding color, then isn't that adulterating? It doesn't say anything about flavor being unadulterated, it says "completely". That is just kind of wrong in my opinion.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:44 pm

The Fat Rum Pirate wrote:
edgarallanpoe wrote:
The 12 I have is also from Foursquare (I've almost had it confirmed anyway) however its aged for most of its 12 years here in England rather than in the tropics. However, that is not the only reason for the difference in colour between the rum and Real McCoy 12 - for the American market caramel is added.
Caramel is added to the Real McCoy or the Barry's? If it's the Real McCoy then this statement on their website "The rum is completely unadulterated" is a bunch of shiiite then.
The Real McCoy has caramel added solely to colour the spirit it adds no flavour and it is well within any regulations.

The point remains - it is colored to look MUCH older than it is. At least it's made by Seales so it remains relatively pure. Still, the Malt Maniacs - the whisky heads that they are - once did quite a serious blind testing of colored scotchs and noted that they dulled the spirit. The regulations are so loose - and the potency of E-150a so great - that you can turn a clear rum to inky black and still be within the regs.

Poe, I'm with you on this one - since there are rums and many good single malts that state "no additives or coloring, no chill filtering" and the like - the word "completely" means well, completely.

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:10 am

Capn Jimbo wrote:
The Fat Rum Pirate wrote:
edgarallanpoe wrote: Caramel is added to the Real McCoy or the Barry's? If it's the Real McCoy then this statement on their website "The rum is completely unadulterated" is a bunch of shiiite then.
The Real McCoy has caramel added solely to colour the spirit it adds no flavour and it is well within any regulations.

The point remains - it is colored to look MUCH older than it is. At least it's made by Seales so it remains relatively pure. Still, the Malt Maniacs - the whisky heads that they are - once did quite a serious blind testing of colored scotchs and noted that they dulled the spirit. The regulations are so loose - and the potency of E-150a so great - that you can turn a clear rum to inky black and still be within the regs.

Poe, I'm with you on this one - since there are rums and many good single malts that state "no additives or coloring, no chill filtering" and the like - the word "completely" means well, completely.

Caramel is added to regulate the colour of each batch. Nothing more nothing less. Perfectly legal and a practice Seale often uses.

It's been stated on this forum enough times that it doesn't change the flavour of the spirit....now we are trying to say otherwise.

I think I'll leave you all to argue amongst yourselves about what amount too........zilch. I;m sorry but the pair of you are talking out of your arseholes.

Enjoy

edgarallanpoe · Post by **edgarallanpoe** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:54 am

Caramel is added to regulate the colour of each batch. Nothing more nothing less. Perfectly legal and a practice Seale often uses.

It's been stated on this forum enough times that it doesn't change the flavour of the spirit....now we are trying to say otherwise.

I think I'll leave you all to argue amongst yourselves about what amount too........zilch. I;m sorry but the pair of you are talking out of your arseholes.

I didn't say it had an impact on flavor. Never, not once...learn to read before you insult me.

I did say that if you are going to claim that an item is "completely unadulterated", then adding color is misleading. I am probably still buying the rum, but I stand by my assertion that adding color is indeed adulterating the spirit.

Blade Rummer · Post by **Blade Rummer** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:54 am

edgarallanpoe wrote: I did say that if you are going to claim that an item is "completely unadulterated", then adding color is misleading. I am probably still buying the rum, but I stand by my assertion that adding color is indeed adulterating the spirit.

I have to agree, "completely unadulterated" is a pretty strong term to have to walk back from. The issue here is not what effect any colouring has on flavor, but rum being sold as something it is not. All they would have to do is remove the claim; I think most people would agree that is not entirely unreasonable.

The way I see it, the fight for unadulterated rum is wholly dependent on there being honest labelling and advertisement in the first place. I really can't understand why anyone would seem to be outraged at that.

edgarallanpoe · Post by **edgarallanpoe** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:07 pm

I have to agree, "completely unadulterated" is a pretty strong term to have to walk back from. The issue here is not what effect any colouring has on flavor, but rum being sold as something it is not. All they would have to do is remove the claim; I think most people would agree that is not entirely unreasonable.

The way I see it, the fight for unadulterated rum is wholly dependent on there being honest labelling and advertisement in the first place. I really can't understand why anyone would seem to be outraged at that.

Exactly. I am excited about buying this rum (and that is the way I am leaning) because I have yet to sample an R.L Seale product. His reputation is spectacular and I am assuming that is for good reason.

My issue isn't with Foursquare using caramel color to keep a certain consistency among its product...it is with The Real McCoy people and their "completely unadulterated" statement.