Best 5 rums

[Capn Jimbo]

Hey Tot, I know you weren't, no worries, was just raising another perspective.

Perhaps a better example is salt: add too much and the relative differences between what were formerly tasty foods are overshadowed if not obliterated by the salt, so dominant that the otherwise discernible differences are masked.

The Guevara study was both accurate and remarkable, as it compared a light, less complex rum to an aged and more complex one. In the amounts of sugar, etc., used by the big cheaters (like DDL or Plantation), the individual character of the rum was obscured and altered to the point that they were ruined. As Guevara put it (at 10g) "... Now we have totally transformed this one. The good man your father once was, is gone...". At (15g) "...Holy crap. This is blasphemy...". And at over 30g "...The last barrier is 35-40g/l. This is the last step before overdoing and leaving the world of spirits by entering the realm of liqueur."

The original rum profile of both rums were demolished.

My personal opinion is that up to perhaps 5g the relationship is more linear (think Pusser's Blue at 43%), but at the DDL levels being discussed, the product does not remotely represent real and pure rum, as much as it represents a sickeningly syrupy smooth, lip licking and liqueur-like concoction. Worse yet it is the so-called "premiums" that use these massive amounts.

There is evidence to suggest that these expensive blends - chock full of sugar and likely other adulterants and flavorings - are not really what they say they are, neither in terms of age or content.

Frankly, the 550 sugar tests were quite clear in demonstrating that the rums least likely to be abused were the younger, relatively affordable ones, which will much more rum-like than the sugar bombs where the once pure character has been destroyed.

[The Black Tot]

Let's put it another way.

If our dear Altair were to add water to his 109 proof Pusser's until it came down to 80 proof, the liquid would then be of a larger volume (not literally additive because the molecules stack within themselves, but still, a larger volume ultimately).

Therefore, if you take a 109 proof spirit down to 80, you will end up having fewer grams/L by the time they are equally comparable, because there are more L.

Putting the debate aside though (which I am happy to do), certainly you would never be a part of persuading Mr A that he has no use for the taste of Pusser's?

[Altair]

Hi Capn.

What are the bests in your opinion?

[Altair]

Let's put it another way.

If our dear Altair were to add water to his 109 proof Pusser's until it came down to 80 proof, the liquid would then be of a larger volume (not literally additive because the molecules stack within themselves, but still, a larger volume ultimately).

Therefore, if you take a 109 proof spirit down to 80, you will end up having fewer grams/L by the time they are equally comparable, because there are more L.

Putting the debate aside though (which I am happy to do), certainly you would never be a part of persuading Mr A that he has no use for the taste of Pusser's?

No, I dont'l like to put water in my rum. I drink demerara at 53° without water and I love it. I drink scotch at 53,55,58° without water and I love it.

[The Black Tot]

I wasn't suggesting that you do put water in it, Altair.

Just that if you're going to compare sugar counts with ED at 80 proof, you have to compare them at the same concentration if you're going to measure sugar/volume.

[Capn Jimbo]

Tot, certainly valid for those who dilute their barrel and OP's, and worth a look.

Diluting a liter of 108 proof to say 86 proof (a good target), according to the handy formula and calculator developed by the boyz at Homedistiller's (linked), would require adding 256 ml of water. Ergo what was once say 40g/liter of sugar (think Z23) is now about 32g - a distinction with little difference as per Che's study (which found that anything over about 10g is quite damaging).

But here's a fun, quick and dirty home experiment - ala Che - to test the idea of dilution: check with the Master Sugar List and choose any non-sugared rum (anything by Seales will do, especially the more complex Seales 10). Set up three one ounce glasses: one pure, one with 1/4 tsp and one with 1/3 tsp of sugar. Tip: for the 1/3 tsp, use your 1/4 tsp measure and add 1/4 tsp, plus 1/3 of a 1/4 tsp. These will represent:

1. pure, no sugar
2. 34g/l of sugar (1/4 tsp.)
3. 45g/l of sugar (1/3 tsp.)

Should be fun, and worth a try (at the cost of two ruined drams).

http://rumproject.com/rumforum//viewtopic.php?t=1134
http://homedistiller.org/distill/dilute/calc

[Capn Jimbo]

Altair, my fave's are biased, inasmuch as it's always been our goal to base things on the four or five basic styles and furthermore, to do so using well known, easily available and affordable choice - but that are all still world class.

Here goes, no surprise to any here I'm sure:

• 1. Bajan: MGXO. $32 or Seales 10, $20
  2. Jamaican: Appleton Extra (12 year), $32
  3. Demeraran: was once the ED15, but that has become heavily altered, ergo a tougher choice. To remain affordable you can try the ED5 or ED8, $22.
  4. Cane Juice: Barbancourt 5 Star, period. $22 To get an even more representative experience the 3 Star is even more vegetal, $18.
  5. Cuban: Bacardi Bacardi Ron Superior Heritage Limited Edition (at 44.5%), magnificent and only $19.

For well under $150 you end up with five world class rums that represent each of the five basic styles, a mini-master class. With these you will then be able to blind test and determine style by taste alone. The goal is to consider these your initial reference standards for comparison until such day as you determine your own standards.

In support of Tot, I would add (pun intended) that adding water - even a few drops, or Ralfy's teaspoon - has value far apart from dilution, but moreso in that doing so is well known to release more inherent flavors and aromas. Which you may like even more and for good reason.

Enjoy.

[The Black Tot]

Happy to debate the sugaring issue all we like, but we are comparing with 80 proof EDs, not 86, and the starting point for Pusser's 109 isn't Zee level 40 @ 80 proof, it's 20 at 109 proof.

Take it down to 80 proof and start with 109 proof and you get 363mL added.

1/1.363x20g=14.7g/L.

I know that's still over the 10 point, but I feel we are drifting away from the point that Pusser's is an important part of the rum world, which I genuinely think Altair will appreciate. The worst thing that could happen to him is that he learns what navy rum tastes like.

Oh, and the Bacardi Heritage is 50 euros in Italy - doesn't change the fact that it's a wonderful bottle, but that does lose something as a value proposition for a youngish white in Europe, where there is easy access to Havana Club 3yr for very little money and of very good quality.

[Capn Jimbo]

"Putting the debate aside though (which I am happy to do), certainly you would never be a part of persuading Mr A that he has no use for the taste of Pusser's?"

Now THAT would be a crime against the world of real and true rum!

To not ever try (and likely enjoy) Pusser's is to never really understand the history of rum. And no one rum represents that history better than Pusser's and it's history that travel back hundreds of years, with no alteration and using the single and still state secret formula of the British Royal Navy as assembled by the famous E. D. Mann Co of England.

Pusser's Blue at a mere 6g is quite pure enough and I personally will never be without it. Same for Sue Sea. And Tot's analysis is quite correct, not to mention the much more concentrated congeners. The only reason we wouldn't buy the 108 is simple: we can't seem to find it.

There are few if any real sailors and lovers of rum that don't have a Pusser's, an MGXO, and/or a Barbancourt on their shelves. They are that good.

[The Fat Rum Pirate]

"Putting the debate aside though (which I am happy to do), certainly you would never be a part of persuading Mr A that he has no use for the taste of Pusser's?"

Now THAT would be a crime against the world of real and true rum!

To not ever try (and likely enjoy) Pusser's is to never really understand the history of rum. And no one rum represents that history better than Pusser's and it's history that travel back hundreds of years, with no alteration and using the single and still state secret formula of the British Royal Navy as assembled by the famous E. D. Mann Co of England.

Pusser's Blue at a mere 6g is quite pure enough and I personally will never be without it. Same for Sue Sea. And Tot's analysis is quite correct, not to mention the much more concentrated congeners. The only reason we wouldn't buy the 108 is simple: we can't seem to find it.

There are few if any real sailors and lovers of rum that don't have a Pusser's, an MGXO, and/or a Barbancourt on their shelves. They are that good.

Pusser's is a blend. It's an a historical blend based on rums which were available nearly 50 years ago!

I live in the UK and do I believe that our Sailor's were given premium rum? No I bet they weren't!

The various ABV's of Pussers 40 through to 75% ABV I have tested on my page - they all taste pretty much the same give or take the ABV.

Do they represent an intense fruity Demerara Navy Rum? Too right!

Is there anything close? Well not from Skipper or Lamb's or (dare I say it) A.H Riise.

BUT maybe if you can get it you might want to try the Ancient Mariner (a 16 yr old Caroni) which is according to its maker akin to the rum Sailors were given back in the day.

Also worth a look (if you can get it) Is Walter Hicks 125 Proof Navy Rum. A Demerara with a LOT of flavour.

For my money Pusser's (the 15 year old aside - its ok) is well worth buying and something anyone with any vague interest in rum really needs to try. I wouldn't ignore it based on the Hydro tests.

[Altair]

Altair, my fave's are biased, inasmuch as it's always been our goal to base things on the four or five basic styles and furthermore, to do so using well known, easily available and affordable choice - but that are all still world class.

Here goes, no surprise to any here I'm sure:

• 1. Bajan: MGXO. $32 or Seales 10, $20
  2. Jamaican: Appleton Extra (12 year), $32
  3. Demeraran: was once the ED15, but that has become heavily altered, ergo a tougher choice. To remain affordable you can try the ED5 or ED8, $22.
  4. Cane Juice: Barbancourt 5 Star, period. $22 To get an even more representative experience the 3 Star is even more vegetal, $18.
  5. Cuban: Bacardi Bacardi Ron Superior Heritage Limited Edition (at 44.5%), magnificent and only $19.

For well under $150 you end up with five world class rums that represent each of the five basic styles, a mini-master class. With these you will then be able to blind test and determine style by taste alone. The goal is to consider these your initial reference standards for comparison until such day as you determine your own standards.

In support of Tot, I would add (pun intended) that adding water - even a few drops, or Ralfy's teaspoon - has value far apart from dilution, but moreso in that doing so is well known to release more inherent flavors and aromas. Which you may like even more and for good reason.

Enjoy.

Thanks Capn.
I like very much Barbancourt 8y and Appleton 12y.
A question. What difference is there from Mount Gay and others agricoles??? I read thread and Mount Gay is Barbadian, first earth of rum. But in style is different from Clement, Barbancourt and JM?

BUT maybe if you can get it you might want to try the Ancient Mariner (a 16 yr old Caroni) which is according to its maker akin to the rum Sailors were given back in the day.

Also worth a look (if you can get it) Is Walter Hicks 125 Proof Navy Rum. A Demerara with a LOT of flavour.

Caroni is like Pussers???

[The Fat Rum Pirate]

Altair, my fave's are biased, inasmuch as it's always been our goal to base things on the four or five basic styles and furthermore, to do so using well known, easily available and affordable choice - but that are all still world class.

Here goes, no surprise to any here I'm sure:

• 1. Bajan: MGXO. $32 or Seales 10, $20
  2. Jamaican: Appleton Extra (12 year), $32
  3. Demeraran: was once the ED15, but that has become heavily altered, ergo a tougher choice. To remain affordable you can try the ED5 or ED8, $22.
  4. Cane Juice: Barbancourt 5 Star, period. $22 To get an even more representative experience the 3 Star is even more vegetal, $18.
  5. Cuban: Bacardi Bacardi Ron Superior Heritage Limited Edition (at 44.5%), magnificent and only $19.

For well under $150 you end up with five world class rums that represent each of the five basic styles, a mini-master class. With these you will then be able to blind test and determine style by taste alone. The goal is to consider these your initial reference standards for comparison until such day as you determine your own standards.

In support of Tot, I would add (pun intended) that adding water - even a few drops, or Ralfy's teaspoon - has value far apart from dilution, but moreso in that doing so is well known to release more inherent flavors and aromas. Which you may like even more and for good reason.

Enjoy.

Thanks Capn.
I like very much Barbancourt 8y and Appleton 12y.
A question. What difference is there from Mount Gay and others agricoles??? I read thread and Mount Gay is Barbadian, first earth of rum. But in style is different from Clement, Barbancourt and JM?

BUT maybe if you can get it you might want to try the Ancient Mariner (a 16 yr old Caroni) which is according to its maker akin to the rum Sailors were given back in the day.

Also worth a look (if you can get it) Is Walter Hicks 125 Proof Navy Rum. A Demerara with a LOT of flavour.

Caroni is like Pussers???

Overall no not really but you can understand why an old sailor might detect similarities in Pussers and the Ancient Mariner

[Capn Jimbo]

"A question. What difference is there from Mount Gay and others agricoles??? I read thread and Mount Gay is Barbadian, first earth of rum. But in style is different from Clement, Barbancourt and JM? "

The styles - in roughly historical order (another reason to defer to them - are:

Bajan: the first rums were almost surely made in Barbados, the first and most eastern port of call for ships from the east. Single distilled, but well represented by the oldest continuous distiller of rum - Mount Gay. But in terms of cost, it's VERY hard to ignore Seale's Ten Year. Molasses based.

Jamaican: the first quality rums, double distilled and more importantly based on the unique use of super long fermentations and the use of dunder pits. Pot stilling is common. Extremely complex and aromatic.

Demeraran: per Dave Broom "soft, medium bodied". At one time Guyana had many unique "marks" - different stills producing different rums. Although a few of the old marks and stills continue to produce, DDL completed a huge multi-column, high production distillery to maintain their newfound position as perhaps the major supplier of bulk rums to the mega-arsehole corporations and others. Also molasses-based.

Cane Juice (mistakenly called "agricoles" - a French term of art). The oldest continuous purveyor remains Barbancourt, whose consistency and high quality is impossible to match, producing world class, well aged cane juice based rums at bargain prices (around $20).

The cane juice rums stand alone based on their raw material: cane juice of course, unlike all the others who ferment alcohol from molasses. Thus the cane juice style is not only relatively pure and unadulterated, but has a very different, vegetal/caney profile. Barbancourt is unique beyond price point, as their rums are aged from 4 to 15 years.

Cuban: light, thin, filtered rums made more for mixing than sipping. Bacardi - once known for top quality and purity is the single biggest abuser and adulterer of rum on the planet.

[The Black Tot]

Pusser's is a blend. It's an a historical blend based on rums which were available nearly 50 years ago!

I live in the UK and do I believe that our Sailor's were given premium rum? No I bet they weren't!

It's good enough for the Royals - Royal Navy rum flagons are still brought out at royal celebrations such as weddings and coronations.

I hear those royals have a few bob, and can probably afford the odd Velier if they save up, but nope, it's the flagons that get served.

I have tasted the original stuff (which is now sold under The Black Tot), and it is indeed a superb blend of very good rums indeed.

While Pusser's is indeed an approximation based on today's best available options, that doesn't make it bad or unworthy by any stretch of the imagination.

Caroni is only a part of the royal navy blend, and I would say not a dominant part, either! I think the lion's share of it goes to the DDL components.

[Altair]

The styles - in roughly historical order (another reason to defer to them - are:

Bajan: the first rums were almost surely made in Barbados, the first and most eastern port of call for ships from the east. Single distilled, but well represented by the oldest continuous distiller of rum - Mount Gay. But in terms of cost, it's VERY hard to ignore Seale's Ten Year. Molasses based.

Jamaican: the first quality rums, double distilled and more importantly based on the unique use of super long fermentations and the use of dunder pits. Pot stilling is common. Extremely complex and aromatic.

Demeraran: per Dave Broom "soft, medium bodied". At one time Guyana had many unique "marks" - different stills producing different rums. Although a few of the old marks and stills continue to produce, DDL completed a huge multi-column, high production distillery to maintain their newfound position as perhaps the major supplier of bulk rums to the mega-arsehole corporations and others. Also molasses-based.

Cane Juice (mistakenly called "agricoles" - a French term of art). The oldest continuous purveyor remains Barbancourt, whose consistency and high quality is impossible to match, producing world class, well aged cane juice based rums at bargain prices (around $20).

The cane juice rums stand alone based on their raw material: cane juice of course, unlike all the others who ferment alcohol from molasses. Thus the cane juice style is not only relatively pure and unadulterated, but has a very different, vegetal/caney profile. Barbancourt is unique beyond price point, as their rums are aged from 4 to 15 years.

Cuban: light, thin, filtered rums made more for mixing than sipping. Bacardi - once known for top quality and purity is the single biggest abuser and adulterer of rum on the planet.

Thank for your explanation. Mount Gay is not Sugar Cane, my mistake.

1-Barbadian - I never tried anyone of this. I'll do.

2-Jamaican - I love Appleton.

3-Cane Juice - I Love Barbancourt 8y, I buyed it many times. I tried other like JM, Clement, Neisson. Neisson is very intresting but not my style of rum.

4-Demerara - I love it. After El Dorado for many years now I started to drink scotch also, and I can't anymore drink stuff with sugar added. Now It seems to me too sweet. So when I can, I get some demerara without sugar, better if full proof.

5-Spanish - Too adultered for me. I tried Zacapa,Matusalem,Botran,Diplomatico,Barcelo,Santa Teresa and many others. Diplomatico RE is very good but too sweet for me. I like Santa Teresa 1796.....not as demerara but it's not bad, for an solera. I hate Zacapa, Bacardi, Brugal......

Mount Gay is very different from Appleton?