Diageo: a listing of products

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:54 pm

In the interest of compactness, convenience and peace...

Several of our regular posters feel very strongly that the large conglomerates are really part of the gradual reduction of quality, and the loss of specialty and low volume rums. I tend to agree. At least one valued poster has taken the position he will not purchase the products of Diageo for these reasons.

Accordingly, here's a quick list, credit to the Wiki, and to moi:

Wiki:

Diageo's beverage brands include:

* Baijiu: Shui Jing Fang

* Beer: Bell, Guinness, , Harp Lager, Kaliber (non alcoholic), Kilkenny, Foundry Cider, Meta, Red Stripe, Serengeti, Senator Keg, Smithwick's, Tusker, and Windhoek Lager.

* Bourbon: Bulleit

* Brandy: Bertam's VO

* Canadian whisky: Crown Royal, Seagram's VO

* Cognac: Hennessey

* Gin: Gordon's, Tanqueray, Gilbey's, Booth's, Nolet's Gin

* Liqueur: Baileys, Sambuca, Sheridans, Yukon Jack, Godiva

* Mixed drinks: José Cuervo Authentic & Golden Margaritas, Archers, Pimm's, Jeremiah Weed, Smirnoff Cocktails

* Rum: Bundaberg, Captain Morgan, Cacique, Myers', Pampero,
Zacapa

* Schnapps: Archers, Black Haus, Goldschläger, Rumple Minze

* Spirit Drink: Pimms

* Tequila: Don Julio, Jose Cuervo

* Vodka: Cîroc, Popov, Ketel One, Silent Sam, Smirnoff

Whisky

* Asian whiskey: Windsor

* Irish whiskey: Bushmills

* Scotch whisky: Bell's, Black & White, Buchanan's, Dimple Pinch, Haig, Johnnie Walker, Justerini & Brooks (J&B), Logan, Old Parr, Vat 69, White Horse, Windsor Premium

* Malt Whisky: Caol Ila, Cardhu, Clynelish, Cragganmore, Dalwhinnie, Glen Elgin, Glen Ord, Glenkinchie, Knockando, Lagavulin, Oban, Royal Lochnagar, Singleton, Talisker

* Tennessee whiskey: George Dickel

* Wines: Acacia, Beaulieu Vineyard, Blossom Hill, Chalone, Canoe Ridge Vineyard, Dynamite, Hewitt Vineyard, J&B Rioja, Moon Mountain, Navarro Correas, Piat d'Or, Provenance Vineyards, Rosenblum, Sterling Vineyards.

* Champagne: Moet & Chandon, Dom Perignon

Diageo also distributes Unicum (Hungarian liqueur), its lighter-bodied variant Zwack, and Jose Cuervo tequila products in North America. However, Cuervo operates as a separate company in Mexico and is not owned by Diageo. Similarly, Grand Marnier is distributed by Diageo in many markets, including exclusively in Canada, and a deal was reached in 2009 to expand significantly this partnership in Europe.

Rather than repeatedly raise the subject in other threads, let's make this post the repository of Diageo's products - all together - at one time and in one place. Thus, for those for whom this is an issue, this post will be kept available for reference. If any spirits are missing, please do add them. If there are any other products that posters feel are worthy of mention, add these as well.

Thanks to all...

da'rum · Post by **da'rum** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Alvaro
Archers
Baileys
Bell's
Benmore
Black and white
Blossom hill
Buchanan's
Bulleit Bourbon
Bundaberg
Bushmill's
Cacique
Caol Ila
Captain morgan
Cardhu
Ciroc
Clyne lish
Cragganmore
Crown Royal
Dalwhinnie
Dimple Pinch
Don Julio
George Dickel tennesee whisky
Gilbey's Gin
Glen Elgin
Glenkinche
Gordon's
Gordon's Vodka
Guiness
Haig gold label
Harp
J&B
Jeremiah Weed
Johnnie Walker
Jose Cuervo
Kaliber
Ketel One
Kilkenny
Knockando
Lagavulin
Myers
Navarro Correas
Oban
Old Parr
Oronoco
Pampero
Piat d'or
Pimm's
Red Stripe
Romana Sambuca
Rosenblum Cellars
Royal Lochnager
Saltzenbrau
Senator
Smirnoff
Smithwick's
Talisker
Tanqueray
Tanqueray Sterling Vodka
The Singleton of Dufftown
The Singleton of Glen ord
Tusker
Ursus
Vat 69
Whitehorse
Windhoek
Windsor
Zacapa

I highlighted the ones we have spoken about.

da'rum · Post by **da'rum** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:41 pm

I am not 'fighting' with NY I am discussing a point of view.

I will still add a note of D and a link to this thread when I see a Diageo product in the threads.

Not only Diageo but the BIG 5

1. Anheuser-Busch Inbev (BUD)
Belgium
Market cap as of March 29: $81 billion
Top Brands: Budweiser, the Busch and Michelob families,Natural Light,Ice, etc.

2. Companhia de Bebidas das Américas (AMBEV) (ABV)
Brazil
Market cap as of March 29: $57 billion

3. Diageo plc (DEO)
U.K.
Market cap as of March 29: $42 billion
Top Brands: Jamaican lager Red Stripe, Ireland’s Kilkenny red ales and Senator Keg in Africa, etc.

4. Heineken (HINKY.PK)
The Netherlands
Market cap as of March 29: $25 billion
Top Brands: Heineken and Amstel

5. Pernod-Ricard (PDRDF.PK)
France

My argument is that if one truly values high quality, honest and reasonable priced spirits then these anti quality high profit firms must be avoided at all costs. Even if it means a slight self sacrifice.

A small pleasure now could be costly in the future.

RT · Post by RT » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Keep going?

6. Bacardi USA (Bacardi-Martini)

Uisge · Post by **Uisge** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:15 pm

da'rum wrote:I am not 'fighting' with NY I am discussing a point of view.

My argument is that if one truly values high quality, honest and reasonable priced spirits then these anti quality high profit firms must be avoided at all costs. Even if it means a slight self sacrifice.

A small pleasure now could be costly in the future.

While I agree with the fact that you have your opinion, what sticks in my craw is the underlying assertion that Diageo, and some of the others you have listed, are dishonest, selling unreasonably priced and "anti quality" (as you've put it) products, with a mighty broad brush, imo.

Now, I won't argue that there are some products that are sold by Diageo via the normal distribution channels that are priced rather "optimistically", to put it kindly, but have you looked at the pricing on whiskies available by The Scotch Malt Whisky Society (any of 'em, UK, USA, and I'm sure there is one in AU)?

Much higher than what it would cost than to purchase a standard distillery release (granted, the Society is releasing individual casks items that were purchased from the producers), not including the membership fee that is close to 3 Benjamins (that's 3 X $100 US).

And the interesting thing is, there are those who CAN afford to make those purchases, and do so. You, me, and as far as I can tell anyone else and not REQUIRED to make such purchases. In fact, your deciding not to make purchases of any Diageo product really only affects you, and not them, in the long view.

You can do whatever you wish in terms of how you spend your money on whatever drinks you prefer, da'rum, but I have to ask, how is what you are saying NOT the opposite of the "It's all good/Whatever rum in your glass is the best" attitude that the good Cap'n left at the Shrillery?

There are many products in Diageo's portfolio that I prefer and have chosen to make, for example, Lagavulin 16 YO Single Malt, and while it is more of a rare treat than a daily dram, at some point I will be faced with replacing the bottle I have, and I hope at the time that I will be able to do so if my financial situation allows. That's my choice.

Anyhoo, enough with the soapbox for me tonight, I don't want to turn into The Grinch Who Stole Christmas *Spirits*

Cheers!

Uisge · Post by **Uisge** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:18 pm

Oh, and fix in your list Belleit to Bulleit, that's another of my "must stock" bourbons

jankdc · Post by **jankdc** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:48 pm

I actually appreciate the list. If I go to the liquor store to pick something up, all things being equal, I'd pick up something that wasn't made by the big companies. Now if it was a "must have", I'd still get it, but after I purchased my other "must haves." I like choice and selection. By making a purchase from a small producer first, helps send a message to the bean counters at the state capital to keep that product in stock.

da'rum · Post by **da'rum** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:19 am

Cheers Uisge,
you make some good points I have a list of Diageo transgressions encompassing business practice, taxes and labelling but I'm not at home at the moment so I'll post it up later. You could also google Diageo and contraversies or something along those lines and it will come up.

I'm not sure how you draw the comparison to my opinion and the 'what's in your glass' crowd as I have conceeded that some products owned by D are good products but I believe that they won't stay that way and are over priced. I also stated that there are plenty of alternative high quality rums and whiskys that can be enjoyed without supporting total market domination by a mega corp.

History has shown that no matter what the industry that when one company or only a few very large companies gain the lions share it is not a good thing for cost or quality. The only way to maintain quality and fairness is to have healthy and varied competition in the market.

I'll get back to this later; I have to run at the moment.

Thanks for the reply though,

Cheers.

NCyankee · Post by **NCyankee** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:44 am

Actually, a well-respected poster and industry professional at chowhound has pointed out that Zacapa 23 has recently made an effort to go back to its original flavor profile and away from the overly sweetened one from the last few years. This flies in the face of the supposition that ownership by Diageo automatically means a degradation in quality.
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JMF Oct 14, 2012 09:32 AM

You may want to revisit the Zacapa 23. The Master Distiller/blender has been bringing it back in line to its flavor profile of 12-15 years ago, before it was sweetened up to suit the market of the time. Had a new bottle of it in a blind taste test last week and it wasn't sweet and syrupy as it had been the past decade. One person thought it was a whiskey that had been secondary aged in a rum barrel. An excellent rum once again. Just make sure it is a new bottle and not one that's been sitting on the shelf.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:55 am

One of my favorite people...

Is Johannes van den Heuvel of the Malt Maniacs. We've exchanged a number of extremely detailed emails about this issue of mega-corporate degradation. See (here). If you'll review this amazing post you'll see his view on the effects that we all suffer. Others who have spoken out include Ralfy, JaRiMi, moi and some of you. I'm sure we'd all take effective steps to change this if we could. For example da'Rum has taken a stand, and that is to boycott them. Boycott at a certain point can make a difference, but to work it has to strike their bottom line - otherwise da'Rum becomes just a lone voice in the forrest. But even if he were alone (and I don't think he is) he achieves yet another objective...

He has brought it to public attention.

Now this really can work. Let me give you a great example. At one time Z-23 - which is backed by a Sydney Frank type marketing team - was promoted as "the best rum in the world". Monkeys everywhere bought and repeated that line. I follow the rum net very, very closely and I can tell you that at that time we were fully in the Shillery driven "...it's all good phase". No mention of styles, no mention of unlabeled alteration, and Z-23 was the undisputed champion of rum. It sold upwards of $40 to $45. All of which was and remains a huge, stinky, steaming pile of moose shit.

When I first posted even mildly negative commentary about this sugared rum I was literally attacked and laughed at, all over the net. But a funny thing happened. I can tell you that there are always a few others who agree with you, but avoid posting out of fear of intimidation. It's hard to stand up against a monkey mob. But when a lone voice - like moi re Z-23 or da'Rum re Diageo - speaks out, it draws out these other fellow travellers. It took about a year, but I'm thrilled to say that Z-23 was finally outed, and now the "new common knowledge" finally became the truth - it is NOT the "best rum in the world" and it IS altered by public consensus. Accordingly their prices have fallen to under $30. And yet another amazing thing...

In this very thread, Yank has reported the amazing news that Zacapa got the messege and is "going back" to their alleged "original formula". And how did all that occur? A few "lone voices" spoke out in what is really a very small web world insofar as rum and influenced the rest. It absolutely can be done.

What's my position?

I seek quality and purity in spirits regardless of who bottles the product. Frankly, I have little interest in most of what Diageo controls but there are some exceptions. At least to some degree, Diageo has known enough to keep some distance from their single malts. They are aware of the sophistication of the market and of the key reviewers (think Dave Broom or Ralfy). Unlike rum, Diageo knows they can be outed by the maltsters. Still it is impossible for them to not exert profit-creating pressures - pressure on which they have been called out.

Johannes and JaRiMi are clear on this. Their approach is to continue to buy and stock up on releases that are good, and to reject the rest. That will work for awhile, but as da'Rum has observed - the jig is up. The moose's nose is under the tent.

For me? There are a few brands that Sue Sea and I feel forced to buy, for example Guinness Stout, which we simply can't be without. A very rare Red Stripe. Although Tanqueray continues to get top ratings, I can easily substitute Plymouth Gin. I'm not interested in their bourbon, brandy, or Canadian "whisky". Sue Sea's beloved Baileys is easily substituted with Richard Seales' Crisma or Wray & Newphews Rum Cream. I have no interest in their shnapps, tequila, or spirit drinks. Ibid for their scotch blends, Asian or Irish whiskeys. And the only single malt that interests me is their Lagavulin.

That's damn few of their portfolio. At the same time I will continue to out them and their power play politics. Bacardi and Diageo can go to hell for their attempts to actually destroy competition. Same for the fackers at WIRSPA and their butt buddy, the Rum Badassitor.

What we all can do is continue to speak out, and not just here. I take the time to post elsewhere to raise consciousness and to help build a critical mass, just as was done with Z-23. This is a forum that welcomes honesty and truth, that respects history and tradition and hopes to preserve and promote quality and purity in all spirits, but particularly rum. Personally, my bets on craft distillers like Phil Prichard, and independents like Richard Seale and Charles Tobias to name just a few.

What's your bet? And go forth and multiply...

NCyankee · Post by **NCyankee** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:09 am

You stated exactly what my feelings on this matter are - "They are aware of the sophistication of the market and of the key reviewers (think Dave Broom or Ralfy". Unlike rum, they know they will be outed by maltsters."

I don't see any reason to penalize diageo just because they own a brand I like - unless they mess with it, which hopefully they will not do. There really is no substitute for Talisker, it really is a unique single malt, and lagavulin is similar to Laphroaig and Ardbeg but is the best of the three.

I like White Horse as a low priced scotch blend, but if it starts to taste like Cutty Sark I will stop buying it.

The funny thing Diageo did when they bought talisker - they created their own category in their "Classic Malts' series - the "Isle of Skye" - which is funny because Talisker is the only distillery on Skye.

Diageo has owned George Dickel for some time, yet it has remained an excellent Whiskey and an excellent value, in my opinion infinitely better than the bland and sweet Jack Daniels.

da'rum · Post by **da'rum** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:51 am

Just because people pull them up on their dodgy behaviour doesn't stop them from trying it.

In December 2003, Diageo provoked controversy over its decision to change its Cardhu brand Scotch whisky from a single malt to a vatted (blended) malt whilst retaining the original name and bottle style. Diageo took this action because it did not have sufficient reserves to meet demand in the Spanish market, where Cardhu had been successful. After a meeting of producers, Diageo agreed to make changes.[40] In 2006, the Cardhu brand quietly changed back to being a single malt (wiki)

In July 2009, Diageo announced that, after nearly 200 years of association with the town of Kilmarnock, Scotland they would be closing the Johnnie Walker blending and bottling plant[42] as part of restructuring to the business. This would make 700 workers unemployed and caused outrage from press, local people and politicians. A campaign against this decision was launched by the local SNP MSP Willie Coffey and Labour MP Des Browne. A petition was drawn up against the Diageo plans, which also involves the closure of the historic Port Dundas Grain Distillery in Glasgow.[43] Part of the Johnnie Walker operation will be moved to a Diageo site at Leven, Fife, with the creation of 400 jobs there.[44] As part of this expansion in Leven, Diageo culled a herd of roe deer living on the site to make way for new buildings.[45]

In February 2009, it was reported in The Guardian that the company had restructured itself so as to avoid paying tax in the UK[46]

The National Puerto Rican Coalition plans to run a series of ads in New York City and Puerto Rico urging a boycott of Diageo-owned alcoholic drinks to protest the corporation’s production move of its Captain Morgan rum from Puerto Rico to the U.S. Virgin Islands,[47] which will provide it with $2.7 billion in tax benefits over 30 years.

On 9 May 2012 Scottish Craft Brewery Brewdog revealed that Diageo had threatened to withdraw funding from BII Scotland's annual awards if Brewdog was to be named winner of the Best Bar Operator award. Diageo was forced to issue an apology. courtesy of WIKI

These are just a few examples of the ethics of this company and a forewarning of the future if consumers are complacent.

If a micro view is taken and the big picture ignored then there probably will be very negative outcomes.

I could not disagree more with the ' one person is insignificant' point of view. That is dis-empowering doctrine drummed into us to keep us from making individual stands and moral decisions. I mean if I can't change them, I may as well join them right? Bullshit.

The power we all have as individuals to force and effect change is severely under rated. Apathy is an easier road though.

It is my view that as a quality and diversity loving person it is my moral duty and to my personal benefit to boycott Diageo and their ilk. At the moment it isn't a sacrifice because there are still viable alternatives. However if we close our eyes and hope for the best without taking a stand then these option one by one will be swallowed and changed.

I know that I have Buckley's chance of convincing Nc Yanker of my argument and respect his opinion. I may be wrong but really history shows that monopolies and or oligopolies are to the detriment of the consumer. Quality does decrease, choice is gone and price goes up.

NCyankee · Post by **NCyankee** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:31 am

Here is a Scotch review that supports the idea of degradation of quality / price increase in the Johnnie Walker label - which is a shame because I have a bottle of the Gold Label and it is excellent, though I wouldn't have rebought it at the original $70 unless I got a free bottle of Black label again in a gift set, and I won't be buying the new Gold Reserve (sucks) or Platinum (too expensive).

http://jason-scotchreviews.blogspot.com ... ld+reserve

It's also a damned shame they are discontinuing the Green Label, and if i see any more at a price I like I would buy more.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:27 am

Did anyone hear a truck go by?

Funny, but I thought I heard the roar of a big diesel hauling a double load? Must have been my imagination. Back to business. These last two posts by da'Rum and Yank are particularly revealing.

Both confirm what both Johannes van den Heuval and JaRiMi predicted about the megacorporate gameplan. It seems that unceasing growth of new markets puts a real strain on aged stock. A key aged component is diminished from a current line, only to reappear in a more expensive line. These companies are unwilling to stick with a winner, are unsatisfied to say they are selling all they can make.

This is the equivalent of the food store's degradation of product packaging. Remember when a pound of coffee was - well - a pound. Then it went down to 12, then 11, then 10 oz. All delivered in new, thinner or otherwise misleading packaging that appears to be height and width - with the same shelf appearance - of the old one.

At least the Caribbean is fighting back. CARICOM is speaking out, and as per da'Rum the Puerto Rican coalition is planning a boycott and ad campaign against Captain Morgan in NYC. Yank's handy link is well worth a click as an independent reviewer tears apart Johnny Walker's destruction of its venerable Gold line.

Two sad reports confirming that it's getting worse faster. The Malt Maniacs are already hoarding the dwindling really good, really fairly priced good stuff. The real truth - independent, smaller distillers would never do this.

They are quite proud of their artistry, and are proud when their product is selling out...

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:41 am

And the beat, er beating, goes on...

It was negatively poetic when soon after posting I ran across an amazing story of mega-corporate (criminal) business as usual (here). In this amazing piece Walmart's immoral muscling and corrupting of legal process based on strategic bribery is a real eyeopener. What was especially chilling was their primary tactic which those who have read "Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Wolf will immediately recognize.

To win, the Machiavellian tactic is to create shock and awe by a demonstration of sheer power. In the case of Walmart, it was to build one of their classic and condescending megabox stores on sacred ground...

Article: "As it turns out, the store also took on symbolic importance within Wal-Mart de Mexico, Mr. Cicero said in an interview. Executives, he said, came to believe that by outmuscling protesters and building in the shadow of a revered national treasure, they would send a message to the entire country: If we can build here, we can build anywhere."

Whether its Walmart's master mentality in building their own pyramid of profit in the face of the populace, or Diageo stranding Puerto Ricans and moving to another (US subsidized) location it should be abundantly clear morality and legality are of no concern whatever. Fraud, bribery and cheating - only rarely punished, and then only as minor fines - have become business as usual.

To fight this effectively will likely require the ballot box and boycott...