And Pusser's says
Drum roll
3 years for blue label.
http://www.pussersrum.com/logbook/pusse ... wins-gold/
Now to find out if Fortune are blending it for them.
Here ya go Jimbo, Straight from the horses mouth Dept
Here ya go Jimbo, Straight from the horses mouth Dept
in goes your eye out
The bottle pictured above is the 109 proof version sold in Europe and Australia. Can we assume the same aging for the 84 proof version sold in the US? Or might our diluted version require a different amount of aging to achieve the same flavor profile?
Students of the cask, reject naught but water. -Charles Gonoud, Faust Act 2
Bloody hell RT! Why don't you just ask me it's atomic weight and molecular structure as well? 
Without one shred of proof I would say and even bet a big 50 Zimbabwean nuk nuks that the US version is the same age and merely diluted.
No citations though....
If I fall arse backwards into some proof like I did with the 3 year thing then I'll post it.
Without one shred of proof I would say and even bet a big 50 Zimbabwean nuk nuks that the US version is the same age and merely diluted.
No citations though....
If I fall arse backwards into some proof like I did with the 3 year thing then I'll post it.
in goes your eye out
I'm pretty sure there's a direct correlation between proof and atomic weight. I will check with my associates at MIT and get back to you.
Seriously, my curiosity was piqued by how often here in the US people seem to think our Pussers is 4 year aged, absent any direct evidence pro or con. My theory is probably completely off, but still possible enough to be worthy of some discussion after a tot or two.
How does a blender keep a lower proof version from tasting watered down? More flavor additives, more aging, both, or neither?
Seriously, my curiosity was piqued by how often here in the US people seem to think our Pussers is 4 year aged, absent any direct evidence pro or con. My theory is probably completely off, but still possible enough to be worthy of some discussion after a tot or two.
How does a blender keep a lower proof version from tasting watered down? More flavor additives, more aging, both, or neither?
Students of the cask, reject naught but water. -Charles Gonoud, Faust Act 2
I don't think being over diluted is much of a worry at 40% as the sweet spot is about the 40% abv range for our taste receptors. Although I do buy the 75% Pusser's and dilute it to 43ish% as I think that's where it tastes the best. I don't know why Pusser's doesn't export the higher proofs to the US it may be a tax thing.
If I try and drink the higher proofs straight then all that I would achieve is taste buds on strike for an hour and a disgruntled liver. They are made with the intent of being used as cocktail mixers but with nice clean water are just the same as the 40% in every way taste,colour and aroma.
If I try and drink the higher proofs straight then all that I would achieve is taste buds on strike for an hour and a disgruntled liver. They are made with the intent of being used as cocktail mixers but with nice clean water are just the same as the 40% in every way taste,colour and aroma.
in goes your eye out
How in the hell can Pusser's produce such a nice three year old rum when half of the industry just about get a decent mixer at three years old?
Hard to fathom that when I tried Pusser's and ED 12 the other week (back to back) that there was little difference in the quality of both rums and it boiled down to personal taste of which one I prefered (ED12) but, saying that I wouldn't turn my nose up at Pusser's just take two or three glasses to really get into it.
Hard to fathom that when I tried Pusser's and ED 12 the other week (back to back) that there was little difference in the quality of both rums and it boiled down to personal taste of which one I prefered (ED12) but, saying that I wouldn't turn my nose up at Pusser's just take two or three glasses to really get into it.
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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Did I miss the party?
Interesting exchange. Pussers - like Phil Prichard and a few others - is simply the result of great raw materials, long fermentation and the skilled cuts of the pot stilling process.
Thanks for the 3 year reference (assuming of course that anything a rum competition says is meaningful). I have long series of good exchanges with Pussers (including spending several hours at the Caribbean Club in Key Largo with a son/rep) and it's the same juice - at any percentage, in any bottle, at any age, and on any tongue...
Interesting exchange. Pussers - like Phil Prichard and a few others - is simply the result of great raw materials, long fermentation and the skilled cuts of the pot stilling process.
Thanks for the 3 year reference (assuming of course that anything a rum competition says is meaningful). I have long series of good exchanges with Pussers (including spending several hours at the Caribbean Club in Key Largo with a son/rep) and it's the same juice - at any percentage, in any bottle, at any age, and on any tongue...
From a chemistry standpoint something doesn't make sense. A typical 750 ml bottle of 109 proof rum would contain 54.5% alcohol, about 43% water, and about 2.5% other stuff. Since the alcohol and water are essentially flavorless, all the flavors are in that other "stuff", regardless of whether naturally occurring or additives or some combination thereof.
If we could remove about 30% of the alcohol and replace it with an equal volume of water, the percentage of alcohol would drop to about 42%, the overall volume would not change, the flavor stuff would exist at the same ratio as before, and the taste should be about the same. But that is not feasible.
Instead, we must add water until the water to alcohol ratio is nearly 2:1 (target 84 proof), greatly increasing the amount of water present in the bottle (necessitating a larger bottle), and resulting in proportionally much less of the flavor stuff.
So my question remains, when they dilute a very tasty 109 proof rum down to 84 proof, what do they do to make sure there is still enough flavor in the bottle?
If we could remove about 30% of the alcohol and replace it with an equal volume of water, the percentage of alcohol would drop to about 42%, the overall volume would not change, the flavor stuff would exist at the same ratio as before, and the taste should be about the same. But that is not feasible.
Instead, we must add water until the water to alcohol ratio is nearly 2:1 (target 84 proof), greatly increasing the amount of water present in the bottle (necessitating a larger bottle), and resulting in proportionally much less of the flavor stuff.
So my question remains, when they dilute a very tasty 109 proof rum down to 84 proof, what do they do to make sure there is still enough flavor in the bottle?
Students of the cask, reject naught but water. -Charles Gonoud, Faust Act 2
Actually, no I'm not... I think your break down of components isn't quite right ie;
The over proof rum isn't more flavourful it is somewhat muted by the higher proof meaning there isn't enough water to allow the esters and other stuff (the words are failing me at the moment, it's been a long day) to be released. The flavours or what our receptors perceive as flavours are locked up in the alcohol.
So the addition of water (or dilution of alcohols) is the crucial factor to the enjoyment of the spirit.
You are correct in saying if you wanted to convert a 54% into 40% you'd need a bigger bottle but your contents compared with a 40% bottle from the production line would be exactly the same.
Firstly neutral alcohol is flavourless, the alcohol(s)in rum aren't. They carry esters and other flavour bringing goodies to the table.A typical 750 ml bottle of 109 proof rum would contain 54.5% alcohol, about 43% water, and about 2.5% other stuff. Since the alcohol and water are essentially flavourless, all the flavours are in that other "stuff", regardless of whether naturally occurring or additives or some combination thereof
The over proof rum isn't more flavourful it is somewhat muted by the higher proof meaning there isn't enough water to allow the esters and other stuff (the words are failing me at the moment, it's been a long day) to be released. The flavours or what our receptors perceive as flavours are locked up in the alcohol.
So the addition of water (or dilution of alcohols) is the crucial factor to the enjoyment of the spirit.
You are correct in saying if you wanted to convert a 54% into 40% you'd need a bigger bottle but your contents compared with a 40% bottle from the production line would be exactly the same.
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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Since I'm an architect, not a chemist, I am trying to keep things conceptual. Maybe I'm totally wrong, and maybe I'm just not explaining my thoughts well, but if I add white to a paint, the color changes. I-m trying to figure out how it is not the same concept here.
Yeah, that's where I got the 2.5% from. Seemed slightly better than a wild-ass guess.
In my crude analysis, I'm ignoring the fact that various components bond and react. That did not seem salient to my basic premise that additional flavor goodies need to be added somehow, to achieve consistent overall flavor when a rum is diluted.
Is an argument being made here that overproof rums start out with too much flavor, so that when they are diluted the flavor is just right?
Yeah, that's where I got the 2.5% from. Seemed slightly better than a wild-ass guess.
In my crude analysis, I'm ignoring the fact that various components bond and react. That did not seem salient to my basic premise that additional flavor goodies need to be added somehow, to achieve consistent overall flavor when a rum is diluted.
Is an argument being made here that overproof rums start out with too much flavor, so that when they are diluted the flavor is just right?
Students of the cask, reject naught but water. -Charles Gonoud, Faust Act 2
No, the argument is that there is just as much flavour in 75%,54% and 40% Pusser's but, the higher abv bottling's flavours are locked up in higher alcohol percentage therefore unavailable to our taste receptors. Once the water is added then the flavour can be picked up/recognised without the added problem of alcohol anaesthesia of the taste buds.
There isn't any difference in product except one is barrel strength one is overproof and the other shelf proof or drinking proof.
There isn't any difference in product except one is barrel strength one is overproof and the other shelf proof or drinking proof.
in goes your eye out
This explanation makes sense to me.da'rum wrote: there is just as much flavour in 75%,54% and 40% Pusser's but, the higher abv bottling's flavours are locked up in higher alcohol percentage therefore unavailable to our taste receptors. Once the water is added then the flavour can be picked up/recognised without the added problem of alcohol anaesthesia of the taste buds.
So if I obtained bottles of the 75%, 54.5%, and 42% Pussers (presumably all blended from the same stocks), and diluted each of them to my preferred sipping conditions of 70 proof and 60 deg. F., would I be able to tell the difference?
Sounds like a competition with no losers
Students of the cask, reject naught but water. -Charles Gonoud, Faust Act 2