Received from a frequent Project poster...
http://inuakena.com/spirit-reviews/rum- ... mment-1689
This link is to Josh's Inu A Kena rum website, and his review of Diplomatico Reserva Exclusiva - to which he received a reply from MJ that I know as a talented and very experienced industry insider (and who posts here under another name). You'll have to guess, but hint: it's not me, even though I am accused of being almost fackin everybody.
For some strange reason, Turncoat Burr decided to participate and play his "Expert's Corner" card and condescend to MJ (who can more than hold his own).
This link was brought to my attention by yet another mysterious but well known Project Poster Supreme, again not me, lol. Once I saw this thread, of course I hadda toss in my 3 drachmas...
Hot Tip Dept: from a Frequent Flyer
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
An interesting exchange of views. I left my own comment Just thought I'd stick my nose. Talking of rum that is adulterated or not. Is there a list of rum that are not adulterated anywhere. At least if there were a list we could make an informed decision of what to buy.
How about it Jimbo put a list up on the rum project site.
How about it Jimbo put a list up on the rum project site.
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
[bThere are answers and there are questions...[/b]
How I wish I could. Here's the world of rum as we know it.
1. The regulations do make a distinction between "rum" and "flavored rum". However there is an additives clause that although it does not overrule these, may allow an unenforced loophole for companies to slip in additives.
2. Other companies merely cheat, as the government does not appear to test for additives and/or there is simply weak enforcement.
Bottom line: most of what we call rum is altered in some way. A few producers (Seale, Prichard, et al) do make real and pure rum and say so. Other rums (Barbancourt, Appleton, Mount Gay) are assumed to be relatively pure. Other rums believed to be pure (Ron Matusalem) are later exposed as altered.
So for now: it's most a matter of opinion, except for the distillers who promote purity, and for those that skilled consensus agrees are either pure or so well done they may as well be. All of our reviews have this issue and mind, and when we suspect tampering we say so.
In sum, the best thing you can do is to simply read the reviews, ask others you trust for their opinions but most important - drink enough good and pure rum so that you know the difference...
How I wish I could. Here's the world of rum as we know it.
1. The regulations do make a distinction between "rum" and "flavored rum". However there is an additives clause that although it does not overrule these, may allow an unenforced loophole for companies to slip in additives.
2. Other companies merely cheat, as the government does not appear to test for additives and/or there is simply weak enforcement.
Bottom line: most of what we call rum is altered in some way. A few producers (Seale, Prichard, et al) do make real and pure rum and say so. Other rums (Barbancourt, Appleton, Mount Gay) are assumed to be relatively pure. Other rums believed to be pure (Ron Matusalem) are later exposed as altered.
So for now: it's most a matter of opinion, except for the distillers who promote purity, and for those that skilled consensus agrees are either pure or so well done they may as well be. All of our reviews have this issue and mind, and when we suspect tampering we say so.
In sum, the best thing you can do is to simply read the reviews, ask others you trust for their opinions but most important - drink enough good and pure rum so that you know the difference...
Pity about that I hate being ripped off. Paying over the odds for things like Captain Morgan Private Stock I find unacceptable (nothing more than basic alcohol flavoured to taste like premium rum). After two years of aging then they claim it's is a premium product.
OK how about listing adulterated rums and how much they have been adulterated.
OK how about listing adulterated rums and how much they have been adulterated.
Like you say was one of your gateway rums and I've seen it recommended to lots of newbies like myself. Nothing wrong with that at all. At the end of the day though when compared on price and quality, it is overpriced for what it is in my opinion. I've never drunk it so can not comment on it's taste but, based on age and ethics of the company I'd bet that most of the spices came from a bottle of flavoring, now I may be wrong on this if so please do correct me.NCyankee wrote:Capt Morgan private stock was my gateway rum to good aged rums. To someone who has only had Bacardi silver and the like, it really is a big step up in flavor - but once you've had Pusser's and El Do 12 at about the same price, the idea of buying it seems ludicrous.
I followed the link, and the discussion was very interesting. It seems to me that vast majority of people would
A) really, really, REALLY like to see rum producers mark what additives they have used (might actually be great in case of any allergenics - anyone thought of that?), and also mark clearly which rums are made with additives versus those without
and
B) would NOT like to spend their hard-earned cash paying premium prices for adulterated products, that have been made by the way of cutting every possible corner. It is, after all, kinda like paying thousands for a luxury brand handbag whilst KNOWING it is a cheap chinatown knockout product. No surprise there, duh.
Mr. Burr makes me laugh. He first openly admits (gasp!!) that many rums are indeed "fixed" for flavour. Well DAMN, that's mighty honest of him!! Give the guy a medal. He was one of the first people to demand my personal removal from the so-called Ministry of rum for stating the same thing, and saying that I am a rum hater, who needs to publicly apologize for my statements to all rum producers.
I can only deduce from this that Mr. Burr has also become a "rum hater". Goodness gracious! This thing is spreading.
Then, the defense he chooses.
- Rum is FUN ya'll, F-U-N!! Rum people are fun!! Fun fun fun!!! If you don't like that, you're just not Fun! Now that's a bad thing, bad for fun, bad for rum, which is, as we now know it - fun with a capital F!
Good grief. An adult person justifying producers lying to consumers with this kind of logic! And denying making any money from rum. Yeah right..
The REAL FUN for not-so-honest rum industry persons must be selling a dog-cheap, low-quality product for a hundred bucks, and then taking the consumers money for it. Heck, they must be laughing all the way to the bank in truth! Fun, fun, fun, dey all jus' kicksin an laughin at de cunumunus buyin'...!!!
I for one hope de fete now stop. We ent no tootoolbay people, the word is out, and more folks are finding out why NOT paying megabucks for adulterated rums.
Sad thing is, as long as these producers of "fixed" rums make all efforts to hide in the ranks, and as long as people in the business protect them, all the honest rum people suffer as well. And there are plenty of those too. And that is really wrong in my books.
Gotta save that page with the discussions before people wipe off any trace of the honest discussion..
A) really, really, REALLY like to see rum producers mark what additives they have used (might actually be great in case of any allergenics - anyone thought of that?), and also mark clearly which rums are made with additives versus those without
and
B) would NOT like to spend their hard-earned cash paying premium prices for adulterated products, that have been made by the way of cutting every possible corner. It is, after all, kinda like paying thousands for a luxury brand handbag whilst KNOWING it is a cheap chinatown knockout product. No surprise there, duh.
Mr. Burr makes me laugh. He first openly admits (gasp!!) that many rums are indeed "fixed" for flavour. Well DAMN, that's mighty honest of him!! Give the guy a medal. He was one of the first people to demand my personal removal from the so-called Ministry of rum for stating the same thing, and saying that I am a rum hater, who needs to publicly apologize for my statements to all rum producers.
I can only deduce from this that Mr. Burr has also become a "rum hater". Goodness gracious! This thing is spreading.
Then, the defense he chooses.
- Rum is FUN ya'll, F-U-N!! Rum people are fun!! Fun fun fun!!! If you don't like that, you're just not Fun! Now that's a bad thing, bad for fun, bad for rum, which is, as we now know it - fun with a capital F!
Good grief. An adult person justifying producers lying to consumers with this kind of logic! And denying making any money from rum. Yeah right..
The REAL FUN for not-so-honest rum industry persons must be selling a dog-cheap, low-quality product for a hundred bucks, and then taking the consumers money for it. Heck, they must be laughing all the way to the bank in truth! Fun, fun, fun, dey all jus' kicksin an laughin at de cunumunus buyin'...!!!
I for one hope de fete now stop. We ent no tootoolbay people, the word is out, and more folks are finding out why NOT paying megabucks for adulterated rums.
Sad thing is, as long as these producers of "fixed" rums make all efforts to hide in the ranks, and as long as people in the business protect them, all the honest rum people suffer as well. And there are plenty of those too. And that is really wrong in my books.
Gotta save that page with the discussions before people wipe off any trace of the honest discussion..
It amazes me how all these so called rum experts seem to want to cut there own throats financially as well as verbally. It seems like it's the ordinary people the consumers who care more about what is happening to the rum industry than the professionals who actually stand to loose by letting the large players walk over the smaller producers. Let's face it, not a lot to review if we end up with just the big three players, the biggest talking points would be how much vanilla and caramel was added to create that taste or how we twist the age statements to make them sound better than they are. We wouldn't put up with that when buying a mobile phone or expensive car hell even Clarkson and co (top gear BBC) give there industry a good kicking when they screw up and so they should. Not the so called rum pro's no all is good mustn't upset the gravy train while the poor consumer gets shafted again. So yes we as consumers have a duty to pull up the arseholes like Burr and co who do us all a great disservice. It's a bit like the food standards agency (FDA for you yanks) not wanting to pull up the large manufacturers incase they don't get some freebies for doing so. Just a off the wall example but you know what I'm getting at. Pity there are not more industry insiders who will call a spade a spade.
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Here's how far it goes...
Speaking of "fun", Sue Sea and I are nothing more or less than fun and caring people, open-minded and here's the hard part... honest. I was raised to hate lying and liars. Now I don't mean the "check is in the mail" kind. What I do mean is when major purveyors call a spirit "rum" in the face of two things...
Bullshit comes from the bull...
First, that there is actually a category called "flavored rum" in our US regulations. This means that the average person standing in front of 5 long shelves of Big Three dominated product actually believe there's a difference between "rum" and "flavored rum". Why, just look at the labels, Martha!
Bullshit and we know it. The only real difference between "rum" and "flavored rum" is the fackin label! Compare to single malts, bourbon, gin - even vodka and tequila. Rum is for El Estúpido, con bolsillos profundos (deep pockets). Screw honestly, screw pride, screw ethics, screw transparency. Just work closely with your completely dependent distributors and butt kissing promoters in one of the great con jobs of our time.
Second, when people speak out condescend to crush and vilify them. The promoters will kick you off their "...it's all good" websites. In my case create the caricature of the Evil El Capitan, the man of many faces who will infiltrate your hallowed halls in the guise of anyone. Use adjectives like "...arsehole, masquarader, hijacker, troubled, disturbed and disreputable, pathetic, obtuse, obsessive jerk, havoc wreaking cartoon villain..." ad infinitum. And just why?
For being the only rum website that cares and dares enough to tell the truth, knowing full well how these chiselers will react. Their messege is simple: contradict us and we'll do to you what we did to El Capitan. The monkeys cower in fear and deference, as they must.
It's a Small, Small World...
Their problem actually goes far beyond this humble website and writer. The world of rum on the net is amazingly small, which accurately reflects the sorry current state of its production and marketing. Most of what passes for rum is cheap column distillate, distilled to in inch of its life to extract every possible drop of tasteless alcohol, then altered to taste like what the promoters want us to believe "rum" tastes like.
Ever wonder why there are no tasting wheels for rum? That is why. Whisky, bourbon, cognac, cane juice rums, chocolate, coffee, oilive oil, cheese, wine... even cigars for Gawd's sake - all have good and representative wheels. And most have several! But rum? But rum?! Are you kidding?
Not a single wheel - and some have tried - simply because with all the many alterations and additives very few know what real and pure rum actually tastes like. Yes, some of us have an idea but too few and too disorganized to produce a good and reliable wheel. All said, its fair to say that moi, Sue Sea and most of you who are reading this truly love rum.
The True Rum Lovers...
It is out of the sincere and deep love that we speak out. And because we have for some years now, more and more other readers have been given both the information and courage to speak out. In closing here we are at a real crossroads. The Big Three threaten to literally destroy Caribbean rum as we know it. I can tell you this: the Campaign to Save Caribbean Rum has raised the issue directly and openly, and as the Gods would have it, was signed by the literal Who's Who of Rum and Spirits. Enough so that...
It will be the subject of conversation at the Miami fest, which I've heard is not doing so well. We'll see...
Speaking of "fun", Sue Sea and I are nothing more or less than fun and caring people, open-minded and here's the hard part... honest. I was raised to hate lying and liars. Now I don't mean the "check is in the mail" kind. What I do mean is when major purveyors call a spirit "rum" in the face of two things...
Bullshit comes from the bull...
First, that there is actually a category called "flavored rum" in our US regulations. This means that the average person standing in front of 5 long shelves of Big Three dominated product actually believe there's a difference between "rum" and "flavored rum". Why, just look at the labels, Martha!
Bullshit and we know it. The only real difference between "rum" and "flavored rum" is the fackin label! Compare to single malts, bourbon, gin - even vodka and tequila. Rum is for El Estúpido, con bolsillos profundos (deep pockets). Screw honestly, screw pride, screw ethics, screw transparency. Just work closely with your completely dependent distributors and butt kissing promoters in one of the great con jobs of our time.
Second, when people speak out condescend to crush and vilify them. The promoters will kick you off their "...it's all good" websites. In my case create the caricature of the Evil El Capitan, the man of many faces who will infiltrate your hallowed halls in the guise of anyone. Use adjectives like "...arsehole, masquarader, hijacker, troubled, disturbed and disreputable, pathetic, obtuse, obsessive jerk, havoc wreaking cartoon villain..." ad infinitum. And just why?
For being the only rum website that cares and dares enough to tell the truth, knowing full well how these chiselers will react. Their messege is simple: contradict us and we'll do to you what we did to El Capitan. The monkeys cower in fear and deference, as they must.
It's a Small, Small World...
Their problem actually goes far beyond this humble website and writer. The world of rum on the net is amazingly small, which accurately reflects the sorry current state of its production and marketing. Most of what passes for rum is cheap column distillate, distilled to in inch of its life to extract every possible drop of tasteless alcohol, then altered to taste like what the promoters want us to believe "rum" tastes like.
Ever wonder why there are no tasting wheels for rum? That is why. Whisky, bourbon, cognac, cane juice rums, chocolate, coffee, oilive oil, cheese, wine... even cigars for Gawd's sake - all have good and representative wheels. And most have several! But rum? But rum?! Are you kidding?
Not a single wheel - and some have tried - simply because with all the many alterations and additives very few know what real and pure rum actually tastes like. Yes, some of us have an idea but too few and too disorganized to produce a good and reliable wheel. All said, its fair to say that moi, Sue Sea and most of you who are reading this truly love rum.
The True Rum Lovers...
It is out of the sincere and deep love that we speak out. And because we have for some years now, more and more other readers have been given both the information and courage to speak out. In closing here we are at a real crossroads. The Big Three threaten to literally destroy Caribbean rum as we know it. I can tell you this: the Campaign to Save Caribbean Rum has raised the issue directly and openly, and as the Gods would have it, was signed by the literal Who's Who of Rum and Spirits. Enough so that...
It will be the subject of conversation at the Miami fest, which I've heard is not doing so well. We'll see...