Aging: A new concept - GSA?

[Capn Jimbo]

GSA, aka "Generic Spirit Age"


"I recently got a note from a French producer of cane juice rums from Guadeloupe, Reunion and Mauritius (http://www.rhumdefrance.com/). They found The Project an interesting resource and shared their concept:

"Last but not least, although not listed on the site we have created a tool to help compare spirits called the GSA:

The "Generic Spirit Age" (GSA) refers to the relative age of a spirit based on multiple factors including youngest/oldest spirit in the blend (if any), climate, raw material used...
The GSA is a trademark of Rhum De France Ltd, all rights reserved.

Now under the best scenario (under the assumption that relevant and accurate data have been provided by the distiller) we can compare apples to apples by comparing two spirits of similar GSA.

For instance a 5 years old Barbancourt (a rum we like) has a similar GSA to a Ron Zacapa 23, a Clement VSOP, Damoiseau Special Reserve and Damoiseau 5 years as well as a 12 years Aberlour scotch whisky. If we can agree on that we can let people (experts or not) taste and rate them all and it should be easy enough to get a generic retail price say from NY or London. Don't you think?"

It goes without saying that this is an intriguing concept, and I find the comparisons interesting. Needless to say, their GSA system is not fully described so getting a real handle on it is premature - of course I returned the email, asking for more details. Nonetheless, do share your impression now and we'll see where this goes...

[Dai]

Went to the site but didn't find these comparisons.




*******
Capn's Log: The quote is from an email they sent to me, not the site.

[da'rum]

Its an ok idea, however still not better then just putting the ages of the rums used on the label.

[Capn Jimbo]

Why I'm not buying...


The main issues I have are these: first, that the concept is "secret", and second, that this seems intended to promote his own products as older than their barrel years, and third is the problem of comparing one's rums to others without real data about them. Accordingly, I emailed Philippe back:

Moi: "I would be very pleased to exchange ideas – your GSA is a very interesting concept. There is a consensus that aging in the tropics takes place perhaps two to three times faster, and I’ve seen it claimed that a year in the tropics is the equivalent of two or three in say Scotland. Of course there are other variables such as storage, ventilation and the average temperature differential, altitude, et al."

"I would love to know more about your GSA and how you went about comparing for example, the Barbancourt 3 Star (which is actually 4 years old, not 5) with the Zacapa 23. It is very difficult to ascertain the age of the Zacapa based on their blending system which is misrepresented as a true solera."

To which Philippe replied:

Rhum de France Rhums: "Dear Capn Jimbo,

The variables you mentioned are indeed part of the GSA calculation. Considering our fast a spirit will age under tropical climate vs temperate or cold climate is certainly subject to debate. I'd say 2-3 times faster but if there is any argument about it I may use the angel's share as a base (although I understand that evaporation is just evaporation and may not be linked with the relative age of the given spirit). For the sake of simplicity one could measure the ABV of samples taken from the casks at regular interval.

Their is somebody in USA who is doing artificial aging of spirits, his name is Daniel Watson, it would be interesting to get his perspective on that (not that I approve such practice).

When you say consensus about aging, it is indeed interesting as well. On one hand most rum producers working under tropical conditions will say that their rum age faster. They are even Brandy producers (I know at least one) moving their operations to the tropic not to mention another one (in France) who is buying rum aged in the West Indies and later bottled in France after a brief passage in cognac casks (you certainly know about "Rhum Plantation"). On the other there is the maker of ron Zacapa saying that because their rum is aged above the clouds at around 15 degrees it is better. Go figure.

Talking about Zacapa 23, it is certainly an above average rum, it has IMHO a very rich flavour profile (but that's because the rum is aged in about ten types of barrels named from A to J). They should call that "Zacapa Solera" or something. What else it is at least 6 years old and at most 23 but it is nearly impossible to determine the exact proportion even for the master blender.

To know the exact figure requires using fluid mechanic equations. again we use estimations to get a number and adjust it based on raw material used (in this case sugar cane syrup) climate data (not the entire Guatemala but the area where the rum is aged).

GSA does not give you the real age of the product but it's relative aged compared to say a spirit aged under tropical conditions at sea level (with an approximate angel's share of say 10%). From this perspective Zacapa 23 like most whiskeys and brandys with have a low GSA. Worse, it's a blend so that does not help. The highest GSA we got for 2012 is the Damoiseau 1953, aged exactly 31 years in oak barrels. It has a GSA of 28.

Sorry to say that the exact GSA calculation is a trade secret so we cannot give it out just like that. I know, sooner or later someone may try something similar, give it another name and try to make money with it but that's just life.

Happy Tasting!"

In so many, many words, Philippe does not really answer my very simple question, which was how he went about stating a specific BSA for Barbancourt and for Z-23 (with the little public data that exists). He admitted the lack of data, but failed to then address how his original email made the claim "For instance a 5 years old Barbancourt (a rum we like) has a similar GSA to a Ron Zacapa 23,". Instead I got a wall of words and diversions reminiscent of a politician explaining how his picture got taken smoking crack...

Stay tuned...

[da'rum]

I disagree, I think he did answer your question by stating its all esitimations and there is no way to truly know without making 'fluid mechanics' equations. So in other words;

"This is a load of bollocks. We just made any old crap up to suit our needs. We have however come up with a scientific sounding name for the load of crap we are peddling and the rest of our circle jerk will not be spoken about. We have labelled it as a trade secret because if we did speak about it the load of bollocks would be plainly obvious.

Yours sincerely Mr le tool."

[Capn Jimbo]

da'rum: "This (the BSA) is a load of bullocks"...


Right you are. With Philippe's bollocks in hand (ugh), I got more specific and answered him...

Moi:

"I know Watson and I've tasted his rums, very interesting. The notion of "accelerated aging" is curious one. The ADI (American Distilling Institute) is in the business of marketing to new and small distillers. They will sell the neophyte an expensive still like the German Carl, which is a lovely copper pot modified and topped by a copper column with say 5 plates, give or take. The ADI will also train the neophyte and consult with him to make his dream come true. Since the number one problem of a new distiller is the idea that to sell any good aged spirit, he/she has to be willing to tie up major amounts of money for 6 to 10 years before making a penny, and even then - it may not sell.

Pretty scary, and all the neophytes have nightmares about this. Their solution: produce white or very young spirits with an interesting backstory, or - here we go now - or believe ADI's pitch that you can accelerate years of aging into, yes, just months using mini-barrels! Terrific! And ADI sells another Carl. Watson uses SS aging, with the containers loaded with staves of various woods. The whole concept is based on the fallacy that more wood area equals more exposure equals faster aging.

Simply bullshit.

Why? This would only be true if all the processes - additive, subtractive and transformative that are going on with the "breathing" of the barrels - only if all of these were occuring at the same rate and with the same interactions. But that is simply not true. Some of these processes and effects occur quite early, and some take many years to occur, regardless of wood area to volume. Ultra small barrels can quickly overpower a rum. The best that can be done in less time is to do a finish in alligator charred barrels to at least take the sharp edges off. But the complex reactions that years, after layers of earlier aging effects, these complex products will never form.

Brazilian scientists recently announced a process of irradiation that is claimed to age cachaca in literal minutes, not years. The sum total of what you will learn about this is a single paragraph floating about the net, which is less than convincing. The "aged" products have not been released to anyone, or reviewed by any competent reviewer. Not to mention the equipment required is alleged to be in the $20 to$30 M dollar range.

All less than convincing, or outright misrepresentations.

Now to your BSA.

Right now it's little more than the claim that you have a "secret" process that apparently you are using to upgrade the products you have for sale on the premise that "according to our secret BSA calculations" is really much older than its simple years in the barrel. You ask the public to believe your BSA comparisons of a number of rums that you have subjected to the secret BSA formula. And you won't really discuss the factors you use.

What's curious about this is that all good distillers are very close with certain - but not all information. All we can assume is that your formula must be pretty simple, in that it's safe to say that the distillers of the rums you have analyzed have told you very little about how they produce and age, yet even with the little public information you are somehow able to run your calculations. Thus we are forced to assume that the BSA formula must be very simplistic and able to be exercised without much data at all. And that is not very impressive, and with all due respect, believe me, smacks of marketing, not substance.

It is also obvious your BSA is not being sold, and it is not your primary product which is rhum. It is simply a proprietary descriptor without substance, value or understanding beyond your assertion that it works. "Trust us", you say. What if a competitor started promoting their wonderful and amazing new ASB analysis that showed your products were younger than you say? Would you object? Would you want a bit more than "it's true because we say so"? Of course.

Unfortunately the public has endured so much marketing baloney like ten times distilled by dwarfs blessed by the Virgin Mary, using glacier water from the time of Jesus Christ, that your BSA could well be viewed as just another such claim. I share this only because it's my opinion that if your BSA is to have any value, and to escape being lumped in with glacier water you must do a more reasonable job of describing it.

With all these factors: current marketing practices, lack of data and supporting explanation - it will not be well received or believed.

Example:

You give a precise BSA for Zacapa, who is very close with their process. Kindly name the information for Z-23, or for Barbancourt 3 Star upon which your BSA acted. Do you see what I mean? If the BSA can be run using only rough approximations or guesses at the factors, then it really isn't worth much. Distilling is an old, old art - not science, and especially not pseudo science. Right now your BSA is about as believable as the claims made for the NEAT glass. Smoke and mirrors, and trust me claims.

Here's your problem. You've told me nothing that most educated rum afficianados don't already know about Zacapa, Watson, Plantation etc., then announce a BSA formula known only to yourself, and that we must trust insofar as comparing your rums to other products with greater time in the barrel. Were it only that simple...

The true value of the BSA as I see it is that there's a sucker born every second, who is willing to believe a claim so special that it is completely unknown to all other distillers over hundreds of years. If there was truly money to be made with the BSA, you'd be selling it to distillers who could then claim their products were "BSA certified 15 years". As for my opinion - Possible? Yes. Probable? No. But please - I'd love to be proved wrong...

In closing, these are the realities. No one is willing to trust an unsubstantiated claim, particularly one which portends to be revolutionary, and especially in the spirits market which abounds with bullshit.


CJ"

[da'rum]

Well at least you were gentle.

[sailor22]

It's all down to taste. I do believe warmer climes can accelerate aging - to a point. Smaller barrels don't work. Micros trying to accelerate Bourbon aging have proven that. Solara is of limited value except for aggressively blended products like Cognac.

It's and easy experiment to do at home. -- Sample a Zacapa 23 Anos bottled say 7 or 8 years ago against a current 23 solara. If you think they are the same....well, lucky you. Just don't tell me that I don't taste a difference.

[sleepy]

Not at all sure, but I doubt that time in the bottle matters a whit WRT aging character for spirits - glass is non-reactive. Perhaps there are some positive changes as in cabs and other rich red wines, but it could as well be the deterioration that is common in white wines after 3-4 years in the bottle or nothing at all.

[Capn Jimbo]

You might look here...


http://rumproject.com/rumforum//viewtopic.php?t=713

Those who know better than I have concluded changes do occur in spirits, but these are very subtle and take a very long time, say over 20 years or more. Consider too that many distillers who produce blends often "marry" the separately aged spirit together in a vat for a time. While the additive and subtractive effects of wood stop, the various components can continue to interact - albeit VERY slowly - and facilitated by continued breathing via the cork.

Of course comparing an old bottling to a new one is a turkey shoot, as the batches and blends are likely different, especially as the Big Three takeover and distillers are forced to cheapen the product.

[Dai]

It's all down to taste. I do believe warmer climes can accelerate aging - to a point. Smaller barrels don't work. Micros trying to accelerate Bourbon aging have proven that. Solara is of limited value except for aggressively blended products like Cognac.

It's and easy experiment to do at home. -- Sample a Zacapa 23 Anos bottled say 7 or 8 years ago against a current 23 solara. If you think they are the same....well, lucky you. Just don't tell me that I don't taste a difference.

I have to agree it's all down t taste in the end. That's the primary reason we drink rum and why we buy a particular rum.