"Rye Not?" Dept: Comparing Ryes to Rum

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Capn Jimbo
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"Rye Not?" Dept: Comparing Ryes to Rum

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Ryes to Rum, or actually Rums to Ryes...


As those of you who appreciate history and tradition (which should be all of you), "rum" - as undefined as it was - was the coin of the realm until about the time of the American Revolution (see Rye? Rye not?, this section). After that domestic rye dominated American spirits and taste until - are you sitting down? - 1960!

Wow!

And it wasn't just because rye was a common, hardy and distillable grain. Nope, a good rye has much in common with rum, and you owe it to yourself to have at least one rye whisky on your shelves.

Here at The Project we've tried three economical but respected ryes for a comparison: Jim Beam Rye, Old Overholt (same distillate as Beam, but aged differently) and the venerable Wild Turkey (about 100 proof)...

Jim Beam

Sue Sea
: Beam opens with a strong rye bread aroma, very grainy and earthy over a background of spices (ginger, cinnamon, cloves). Think of pumpkin pie spices for a baked, toasted effect. Very nice.

The palate was totally solid! Balanced and consistent with growing heat and spices, front to back, and ending with a lovely, lingering hot white pepper finish. Sophisticated, and with the kind of intense finish that begs for another sip.

Me: Beam begines with a sour rye aroma over a warm sweetness, along with Sue Sea's spices. The corn sweetness (ryes are 51% rye, with the rest mostly corn, perhaps a touch of wheat) was subdued.

The palate opens with an early corn sweetness, with spices building early to a late rye. The finish is a lasting white and black pepper.

Old Overholt

Sue Sea
: I like Old Overholt. It's early aroma is similar but with a bit more alcohol prickle. The sour rye is a bit more apparent, more pungent.

Overholt likewise opens with a corn sweetness, but it is less prevalent than the Beam. The mid palate moves into a dry heat, a dry rye - like rye toast without butter. In comparison Beam is more creamy in texture. Overholt's finish is dry and hot and may remind you of a cane juice rum.

Me: I'm with Sue Sea on the open, Beam gives a slightly richer, warmer impression. The early palate is a light, sweet corn, moving quickly and steadily toward an astringent dry rye, hot white pepper finish that leaves a pleasant lasting glow.

Wild Turkey Rye (100 proof)

Sue Sea
: Wild Turkey Rye was the last rye we tasted. According to Jim, it is a well respected, flavorful rye. And it was! Wild Turkey opens with the same spices, but presents as sweeter and deeper, with bits of raisin, plum, prune. A more baked and sweeter impression. The taste is more complex. It is consistent with the deeper fruits I mentioned with even a dark, ripe bing cherry emerging. I immediately thought of Mount Gay Extra Old. All carry smoothly through the spicy warm finish. Lovely.

Me: There is no doubting that Wild Turkey is a rye, but deeper and richer, sweeter, warmer and more fruity. The palate opens with a consistent rich, deep warmth, with the rye very much in balance, and as Sue Sue noted, moving smoothly to a warm, sweetish hot finish.

The higher proof is apparent. It is good tasting practice to sip first at full strength, then add perhaps a half teaspoon of water to further release the aromas and flavors, and to level the playing field.

The Bottom Line:

Rye replaced rum and we can see why. Even these early ryes were less manipulated, certainly reflected American pride and homegrown rye grain, and still offered a wonderful balance of sour rye and sweet corn distillates providing the experience (as opposed to additives, sugar and flavorings).

For rum drinkers we'd recommend:

1. If you prefer molasses based rums, especially of the Bajan style, go for the Wild Turkey, about $22 but it will go farther at 100 proof. I fell into this class.

2. If you appreciate cane juice rums, you'll love the dry rye of Old Overholt, a very old and respected brand (and which sells for an idiot-proof $12).

3. If you appreciate both, the Jim Beam Rye is very, very nice - balanced and warm, about $20.

If you don't give a shit, you're a monkey and need to go back to the Shillery...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Uisge »

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the released earlier this year Bulleit Rye (actually made by Lawrenceburg Distillers Indiana, who also make Templeton Rye and Redemption Rye). Good stuff, 95% rye in the mashbill, 45% alc/vol.


*******
Capn's Log: How did you know? There's a brand new bottle of Bulleit sitting in a place of honor in the middle of our dining room table. All new spirits get their turn there, under the spot lighting, until we get around to reviewing it. And I bought it exactly for the mash bill you noted, at 95% rye.

Having decided we like rye, the Bulleit beckoned, and the price was very right (about $23). BTW, it is my understanding that this product was first designed with the notion of "...this LDI 95 percent rye recipe was created many years ago by Seagram’s to be a flavoring ingredient in blends like Seagram’s 7." (credit to Chuck Crowdery).

Thanks for the post...
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Post by NCyankee »

I like the Bulleit quite a bit, but I am surprised by the lack of rye bite you would expect in a 95% rye - it reminds me a lot of the Sazerac 6 yr. Very nice sipper.

Just as a point of info - Old Overholt has gone through a few different distillers, most everyone who has been a fan for years agrees that today's product is a shadow of its former self.
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Bulleit "95" Rye

Post by Capn Jimbo »

A guick Rye Review: Bulleit Rye


The last rye we intend to taste (unless we run across a bottle of Rittenhouse, or have a momentary lapse of wallet control for a Pappy Van Winkle) is this one: Bulleit.

The one and only reason we picked this one out was (a) we discovered the wonderful taste of rye whisky and understood that it was this grain - rye - that ousted rum as the American spirit of choice, and remained so until around 1960 - and - (b) Bulleit is 95% rye. We really wanted to understand the rye element. Actually, this formula was first created as a flavor component for Seagram's 7 - today there's been a mini-rye revolution and...

Here we go...

Sue Sea:
I can't tell you why I've developed a real taste for rye, especially because I've found that very few of Jim's single malt and blended whiskies appeal to me. But honest to god, rye is oddly a cousin to some of the good rums I enjoy.

The bottle is lovely, old-fashioned and classic, a kind of old time medicine bottle with molded in glass lettering, and a studiously placed, slightly off angle simple label. It gives the appearance of authenticity and strength.

Bulleit's primary aroma is of a sweet honeyed rye which immediately confused me into suspecting that Jim had substituted a rum like Mount Gay Extra Old (he does things like this, plays fool-your-partner). Think of a nice piece of good, seeded rye toast smeared with honey. There was a bit of orange rind, as in orange marmalade, and just a touch of nice clove.

The opening palate was a light honey, that smoothly and steadily grew spicy and hot for a firecracker white pepper, clove and cinnamon, extremely long finish. In fact Bulleit's finish bordered on what I call an "exhale" - my term for Jim's retro olfaction, an almost second aroma and taste that comes back. Very good spirits can do this, and to me it's the mark of a good one.

Compared to Jim Beam, the Beam exhibits less rye, more corncob, and is more reedy, a bit more sour (rye), and reminds me of when I used to stand in a field of grain with a light wind blowing that grain aroma all about.

In sum, the Bulleit Rye has perhaps edged out my former favorite, the lighter Old Overholt. Both are terrific and the Overholt is easy to buy at $12.
Me: Bulleit presents as a golden amber, clear but not brilliant, and I don't remember the legs. Who cares, really. Sue Sea and I agree on the rich, sweet rye opening aroma, over a background of rumlike leather and a deep, deep alcohol prickle (it is slightly overproof).

The palate is properly and enjoyable consistent - completely - with a fine early light honey which transitions into a growing rye and orange rindy leather to a smashing sweet white heat, clove/white pepper, slightly dry finish.

To me, powerfully elegant and worth every centivo. Bulleit Rye indeed is reminiscent of Mount Gay Extra Old, albeit with less complexity; however Bulleit's balance and smooth power is extemely enjoyable.


*******
Capn's Special Thanks: to Uisge for predicting/anticipating/suggesting Bulleit, and to NCyankee for highlighting its smoothness, despite the very high rye content.

Capn's Log: The book "Whiskey & Philosophy" devotes a considerable part of one chapter to the fact that there are a handful of distillers, but literally hundreds of brands. Jim Beam long ago acquired Old Overholt. The distillate in Beam Rye and Overholt are exactly the same, but may be produced at either of two locations, depending on scheduling.

Crowdery feels that the Overholt may have a bit more bite, and may be selected from more tannic barrels, or may be a bit older/younger than the distillate ending up as Beam Rye.

According to Chuck Crowdery, Overholt is aged differently than the Beam Rye, accounting for any differences. The original was made in Pennsylvania before Prohibition, moved to Kentucky after, where it was made along with Old Grand Dad bourbon. Beam bought out Overholt in 1987, stopped the distillation and when the rye ran out, simply substitued Jim Beam's rye in both brands.
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Post by NCyankee »

Thanks for the clarification as to the changes in Old Overholt over the years. I recently got a bottle of the Old Grand dad 114 and it is outstanding, instantly became one of my favorite Bourbons, especially given the $22 price tag. If Old Overholt was formerly made by that distillery, that might explain its excellent reputation. I just find the current product a little bland and lacking in rye spice. I have yet to try the Jim Beam Rye, as I keep seeing it described as "rye lite" whereas I tend to like the more flavorful ones such as Wild Turkey.

Now you need to get a bottle of the Sazerac 6 year - my favorite sipper, by a slim margin over Bulleit. It is $2-3 more than the Wild Turkey product, but a little hard to find here in NC as it is not a regular stock item.

I would love to get hold of a bottle of the Sazarac 18 yr, but it is rarer than hen's teeth and usually rather pricey at $80-100. I saw it last year at an online retailer for $58 but it was sold out when I tried to order it, and haven't seen it yet this year.
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Post by Uisge »

NCyankee wrote:I like the Bulleit quite a bit, but I am surprised by the lack of rye bite you would expect in a 95% rye - Very nice sipper.
Image

I might yet get another bottle of that stuff.

However, I was just gifted with an early birthday/Christmas gift of Tuthiltown's Hudson Manhattan Rye Whiskey :shock: from a friend in Noo Joiyzee.

I'm floored! And more than a little curious about it. Sucks to be me, sometimes :mrgreen:
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Post by Jwilly019 »

NCyankee wrote:Now you need to get a bottle of the Sazerac 6 year - my favorite sipper, by a slim margin over Bulleit. It is $2-3 more than the Wild Turkey product, but a little hard to find here in NC as it is not a regular stock item.
I'll take this opportunity to reaffirm my recommendation that you try the Baby Saz as it's often called if you can find it. Like NC, I find it to be my favorite rye that I've tried so far.

NC, have you had an opportunity to try the Thomas H. Handy 6 year rye? While not positive, I believe it's the same mashbill as the Baby Saz. However, the THH is uncut and unfiltered.
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Post by NCyankee »

Jwilly - I have seen the Thomas Handy and was very tempted to get it, especially when i was in PA for Thanksgiving where their online store has it for $60 - but that is still a lot of money for me to spend on a bottle, and I have been holding out for some Sazerac 18 yr, which I have yet to spot.

And I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the Handy is indeed barrel-proof Saz 6 yr.
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