Mount Gay problems

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:42 pm

Hassouni wrote:The Good Cap'n might say otherwise. After all, Pusser's (a product of Guyana and possibly some Trinidad) is classed as Jamaican style, and Alleyne Arthur's Special Barbados is classed as Cuban. Not that I disagree, mind!

Honestly, all these classifications are just opinions of some person(s) - so they are not anything more. Maybe good to remember..

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Capn's Log: Yet another opinion, lol. While the placement of a particular rum in a style category may be opinion, the notion of styles is not, unless you believe Dave Broom is a fool. There are generally accepted styles for whisky, gin et al. No other classification scheme can be meaningfully blind tested, the true test for any grouping.

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:52 pm

Gentlemen - there is now real confusion in what I read...

The normal tourist tour is done at the Mount Gay Distillers ltd. visitor centre and operations centre - which is NOT the distillery, but hold the name. The actual distillery is in St. Lucy, and to my best knowledge, it is this plant that has been closed currently, even if the blending and bottling of Mount Gay does continue, the company called Mount Gay Distillers ltd is operational. So either they re-open it, and continue distillation, or they will eventually buy rum distilled elsewhere. Right now, the workers are sacked anyways.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/ba ... ons/211919

Quote: "The actual distillery is in St. Lucy Parish to the north, but at this center you can see both old and contemporary equipment used in rum making, along with rows and rows of barrels. First you view a video about Mount Gay's history, followed by a 15-minute crash course in rum making. The tour concludes with a rum tasting. Rum, along with gift items, is for sale in the on-site shop. You can make a reservation for an admission-free tour of the actual Mount Gay refinery, which is located in the northern part of St. Lucy Parish, by calling...".

However, here they say so:

http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2014/03/11/ ... -not-dead/

Quote: "The refinery is an entity distinct from the distillery, which carries the same brand name but different owners, and was erroneously mixed-up in our report last night."

Hard to get, really. If there is no refining, then where is the distilled molasses coming from, and who's handling this?

West Indian newspapermen...Time to get facts from Bim direct, someone? I don't have relatives there..nor friends currently. Captain? Is it the blending etc thats continuing, or actual distillation?

da'rum · Post by **da'rum** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:58 am

My brain just exploded. However, It looks as though I'll have to hold off on the teeth gnashing until we get accurate information from Barbados.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:43 am

My hip is sore...

da'rum is aware of my occasional rush to post in kneejerk, shoot-from-the-hip fashion. This can accompany things like an enlarged prostate, lol. In an act of self-moderation I removed just such a comment thinking that perhaps I was simply overstating an issue already well covered and addressed by others.

That post was not based on ego, but rather hurried sloppiness. Or so I thought. It seems now that perhaps my now deleted research might have been meaningful after all. Or not. FWIW it indicated that the distillery is run by Remy, and will continue to do so. Now this matter seems completely circular with all of us alternatively mourning or unjustifiably hopeful. Yes, no, maybe, repeat...

Argggggggghhhhhh! Personally, I'm comfortable with Barbados TODAY's correction, confirmed by my other research though I still might check with another source...

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:07 pm

Confused!

Are they actually distilling rum in Barbados for Mount Gay?

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:25 pm

We think so?

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Capn's Log: That's my take and I'm sticking to it.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:12 am

The last word... maybe. But probably not.

These happenings have been very confusing. After much research the best that I can determine are these:

1. The brand is held by mega-corporation Remy

2. The distillation is separate. More than one company supplies rum to the brand. One of those entities was "Rum Refinery of Mount Gay", which ceased operations late last year. The idea that a single entity producing a rum we now know as "Mount Gay" has been doing so since 1703 is a fairy tail, er tale.

3. It is fair to assume that the production will remain in Barbados but there is absolutely no assurance of that.

The current state of affairs for all the great Caribbean rums of the past is that the mega-corporations in their unending quest for ever more profit - even WITH massive subsidies - means that as the once great fall under their clutches, the likelihood that production will be moved to the cheapest supplier is not only possible, it is almost sure. What does this mean to thinking lovers of rum?

Just fackin stop buying them and instead give your hard earned dollars to the remaining real and pure rums that we know of and who need them to survive. You know which those are. In retrospect, when da'rum first made it clear that he would not buy spirist owned by the Big Three, I thought that a bit extreme.

I don't any more.

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:49 am

Well, Remy Cointreau is not one of the big three, AND MG doesn't seem to add any sugar, so I think I can make an exception.

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:45 pm

Has anyone thought of sending an email to Mount Gay for clarification.

A second thought if the refinery is closed down that means only the blending and bottling are now done in Barbados. It makes you think that Mount Gay XO will be changing taste in the not to distant future, unless they have a similar setup somewhere else. All this depends on current stocks or raw material.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:17 pm

Dai, I do get what you're saying...

When I think of a good rum made by a fine distiller I think of a single entity under the long term and consistent control of a quality-oriented management who are singlemindedly focused and dedicated to their quality product. When I learn that the rum is produced by an outside, hired distiller of the day, I'm not left nearly as confident for this reason: how soon, not when, in the name of profit, when will the rum be purchased elsewhere from a far distant island?

Insofar as Mount Gay is concerned the data we have gained has certainly tarnished the belief that a single entity has been producing rum since 1703. I too bought into that one.

Seriously - compare this game of musical rum production to the Scots whose location and stills don't change much. When repaired or replaced distillers have been known to even order the same dents and imperfections reproduced, a mark of how important consistency and control is to them.

When a brand can simply order out a rum from the lowest bidder, well...

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:51 pm

Who says the distillate isn't coming from Barbados? MG is RC's only rum brand, so it's not like Diageo, who makes Johnnie Walker from Talisker, Caol Ila, and a host of other malts and grain whiskies, all still within Scotland. I recall seeing somewhere that there are 4 distilleries on Barbados, I assume those would be:

Mt Gay (possibly defunct?)
Foursquare
Cockspur
?

I'm just throwing out the possibility that maybe Cockspur or the 4th that I can't name (or shit, maybe even Foursquare??) supply the raw material. I have no evidence to go on.

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Capn's Log: West Indian Rum Distillery, Foursquare, St. Nicholas Abbey, Mount Gay Distillers Ltd/Rum Refinery of Mount Bay.

da'rum · Post by **da'rum** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:10 pm

I think it's just really bad reporting. The refinery that closed will be a sugar refinery that produces molasses I doubt they did anything else there except an outside chance of fermenting washes.

I think the distillery that is still open is still where the stills are and we can still expect good distilled Mount gay product.

Also whilst I'm here Remy Cointreau may not be one of the big three but they are still a mega booze monster that are a profit machine not a 'lover of all things fine' entity. They'll need to be watched.

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Capn's Log: Please re-read my research, five posts above. It is very important to realize that Mount Gay (the brand/Remy) does NOT own their own distillery. They job out the distillation. This casts an entirely different light on the current Mount Gay. Compare to brands that are completely self-sufficient, own and control their own operations in toto. I reject the idea that a fine rum can simply be jobbed out for bids, especially the pot-stilled components. When outside suppliers change, the rum will change.

When a brand is owned by a biggie, such manipulation will happen slowly or suddenly, no matter.

Nekkandor · Post by **Nekkandor** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:45 pm

To the best of my knowledge the distillery in St. Lucy was incorporated in 1943 as “The Rum Refinery of Mt. Gay Limited”. Before this year the distillery belonged to the “Mount Gay Distilleries Limited” which itself became incorporated in 1942.

The bottling plant IS the still active “Mount Gay Distilleries Limited”. I have no idea if they have any distilling equipment on their premises. But I do know something else. Some of you guys may already know this. The Rum Duty Act in 1906 prohibited the distilleries of selling their own rums as a finished product or in anything smaller than 10 gallons. If this law is still in existence, then the bottling plant is not allowed to posses their own stills in order to produce their own rum.

In 1980 a contract was made between the two companies for the supply of rum to the Mount Gay Distilleries Limited. One of the reasons was because 60% of the company were sold to foreign U.S. agents in that year. Both Companies no longer belonged to the same owner so I guess the formal contract was therefore needed.

Later in 1989 Rémy Cointreau gained the majority of the shares of Mount Gay Distilleries Limited. If the The Rum Refinery of Mt. Gay Limited has ceased its operations and the Mount Gay Distilleries Limited is still bottling rums with the label “Mount Gay” then it only means that they are using their stock of old rums in their warehouse. They are not getting any new and fresh distilled rums from this “refinery”. God knows were it will come from in the future when the distillery will be closed down for good.

Please correct my if I'm wrong guys.

I do know the following distilleries in Barbados:

- Foursquare Distillery
- Mt. Gay Distillery
- Blackrock Distillery (a.k.a West Indies Rum Distillery a.k.a W.I.R.D.)
- St. Nicholas Abbey Distillery (with their small hybrid still (pot-still with a column on its top) called “Annabelle”)

I do believe Cockspur is buying their rums from the Blackrock distillery. This distillery does not bottle their own rums since the Rum Duty Act in 1906.

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:30 pm

Yes, Cockspur is WIRD, I discovered that after I made my post.

sleepy · Post by **sleepy** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:03 pm

On and on, round and round!

Simple question for anyone with a long memory - has the quality of MGXO been retained? Remember the round, big shouldered bottle? I am convinced that there is a huge difference between that - (I'll bet my favorite paddle) was the source Sue and Jimbo's Elysian reviews of the depth and complexity of MGXO. The current rendition is, to me, sweeter and far less complex. Good, but not brilliant.

I merely regret having tasted my last tot of the original a few months ago. Maybe I'll get lucky in some back-island store and find another.

IOW, the change has been happening - the Mount is eroding into the sea of money. The industry is now, like most other spirits, about how many feet of shelf can be occupied by crappy flavored whites, spiced, etc.