The Great Sugar Test: Updates...

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:27 am

Updates will appear in this thread, as possible...

Today's Update

Yet another webmaster to be named later has agreed to test rums. These include a number of AOC agrigoles I'm told, and further "that the results will surprise you". My good friends, if it is the case that these do indeed contain sugar that will be MAJOR news. The same source states that he is aware of other deviations from AOC regulations in such matters as the use of oak chips, labelling distillate as "AOC" that was actually produced well prior to the AOC's establishment in 1996, and the like.

I have long held that the whole AOC affair was nothing more or less than the French government's own marketing scheme, but I did believe their products were relatively pure, at least by regulation. Still, I'm shocked but given the state of rogue rum everywhere else, perhaps I'm not...

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:09 pm

Equipment arrived today.

Unsurprisingly the measuring cylinder is too wide I should have paid more attention before ordering.

Still using the cylinder the hydrometer came in I have still been able to do some very rudimentary testing. I'll start converting the g/l once I have more confidence in my readings.

However I noted the following

MGXO came in at nigh on 40% as did Appleton 12
Pussers 15 Year old 30% and El Dorado 21 was just above the the 30% mark (and the UK bottling is 43% ABV)
Bacardi Gran Reserva (their white sipper) was 35%

So whilst my scores aren't dead on as yet it shows instantly when a rum has been altered significantly.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:21 pm

Just for fun...

I ran tests for Barbancourt Five Star, and - gulp - Milagro Silver tequila using my 0-100% old hydrometer (which will not be as accurate as using a 30-40 and/or 40-50%).

What I got:

1. Barbancourt Five Star: roughly 6g (at most)

2. Milagro Silver Tequila: roughly 50g

Even ignoring the difficulty in getting good readings from my 0-100 (hard to read) hydro, the differences are still dramatic! So much so that when I tested the Milagro teguila first, I was stunned and sure I was doing something wrong. No way - when I then tested the Barbancourt, I knew my readings were quite reasonable.

The BIG takeaway: I'd been under the impression that tequila is closely regulated and free of adulteration. Boy, was I wrong!

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Special tests by Cyril of Du Rhum (durhum.com)...

A lovely French rum website. First let me announce that our "Cryil" here is a webmaster. His site - "Du Rhum" is unfortunately in French only but can be adequately viewed and understood via Google Translate (link below)

Cyril is the third webmaster who has joined the effort to test rums for sugar, in his case his favored Cane Juice rums (aka rhum agricole). His position on sugar is very much like ours. He recently pm'd me to let me know he planned to have a number of prestigious cane juice rums which oddly enough were those of "La Favorite", an AOC distiller represented by no less than the Preacher.

Tests of the Preacher's La Favorite

Before I begin, let me say that most of us have long believed that cane juice rums, particularly those of the very highly regulated AOC subset, are free of any and all additives. And for some that is absolutely true, eg Saint James, Negrita and Barbancourt. But how about the rest?

We don't yet know, but soon will if Cyril has anything to do with it. But what we now know is that some very prestigious Martiniquean cane juice rums - allegedly retroactively labelled "AOC", do in fact contain sugar...

And a LOT of it. According to Cyril:

1. La Favorite 30 and 35 year: 45g

2. La Favorite 20 year: 49g

In a spirit of fairness, Cyril is very careful to contact the distillers before publishing his tests and did so. Their reply was vague, and did not seemingly account for such large amounts of sugar. Cyril offered his rationale why he believes the sugar was added to the barrels during aging.

Flat Ass Bottom Line

Forgive me Neptune, but I can't help but wonder if either one or both of our members who have yet to be "liberated", will deign to question the Preacher, and ask him to explain the addition of such massive amounts of sugar to the distiller he has represented.

Now THAT would be something...

*******
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

Links to "Du Rhum"
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

mamajuana · Post by **mamajuana** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:26 pm

From this information it sounds like Alexandre Gabriel heads the board for the AOC.

cyril · Post by **cyril** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:46 am

Mister Gabriel heads "Plantation", and thats all he heads... he is not behind the AOC, or related to it.

Concerning the results published on my website, i have sent my samples to Johnny Drejer, who are the man behind the results. Thanks to him for it (and the Anton Paar for accurate results).

I had doubts for many years concerning these rhums of La Favorite, and im upset of the results actually. but not surprised. For now they denied any sugar, we'll see next...

i will personally test my other rhums when i receive my tools. And for information, i did send another sample to Johnny : an old rhum of 1920's, for fun, sugar free.

i truly thing (i hope) that La Favorite is one of the few exception into the agricole's wolrd, but i have some doubt, again, we'll see. But now we can tell the consumers AOC is not sugar free, and that is important to my point of view. no more lies

JaRiMi · Post by **JaRiMi** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:46 am

Capn Jimbo wrote:Just for fun...

I ran tests for Barbancourt Five Star, and - gulp - Milagro Silver tequila using my 0-100% old hydrometer (which will not be as accurate as using a 30-40 and/or 40-50%).

What I got:

1. Barbancourt Five Star: roughly 6g (at most)

2. Milagro Silver Tequila: roughly 50g

Even ignoring the difficulty in getting good readings from my 0-100 (hard to read) hydro, the differences are still dramatic! So much so that when I tested the Milagro teguila first, I was stunned and sure I was doing something wrong. No way - when I then tested the Barbancourt, I knew my readings were quite reasonable.

The BIG takeaway: I'd been under the impression that tequila is closely regulated and free of adulteration. Boy, was I wrong!

I bought a Tequila called Don Nacho reposado from Texas last year. This product is clearly "fixed" with sugar, and possibly also with vanilla extract/essence...It is sweeter than any tequila I have tasted, and the vanilla is "unnatural". Seems that tequila boys have followed rum trends...sad.

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:32 am

Capn Jimbo wrote:Just for fun...

1. Barbancourt Five Star: roughly 6g (at most)

You then go on to say you believe Barbancourt to be free of any adulterants. Is this because of user/equipment error? You do mention it was hard to read.

Also, to FRP: Do you have any backup bottles of ED or Pusser's to test? That ABV is absurd (not that I doubt your reading!). The US Pusser's certainly tastes like 40 proof, though I don't have any means of testing it.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:50 am

You then go on to say you believe Barbancourt to be free of any adulterants. Is this because of user/equipment error? You do mention it was hard to read.

Hass, exactly right. The reason Johnny Drejer uses hydrometers that read only 10 points, eg 30-40%, rather then one like my old one (0-100%, 100 points) has entirely to do with readability and accuracy. The divisions on my old hydro are soooo close together that they are VERY hard to read, especially dealing with the meniscus (curvature of the liquid in the test cylinder).

Thus the VERY rough readings - my goal was simply a gross comparison as noted "just for fun". Of course I will revisit this, but it's already clear that Barbancourt will come in close to the accepted 0-5g range for rums we can consider acceptable (though I may change my opinion once I get my two 10 point hydros.

BTW, I do hope you plan to order some equipment, as the movement to individual and webmaster testing is growing, and I know you have a good collection...

cyril · Post by **cyril** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:14 am

and that would be interesting to test some old Barbancourt from the period pre 90 to compare

Hassouni · Post by **Hassouni** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:16 pm

Capn Jimbo wrote: BTW, I do hope you plan to order some equipment, as the movement to individual and webmaster testing is growing, and I know you have a good collection...

I plan on it, once this whole April 15 thing blows away!

cyril wrote:and that would be interesting to test some old Barbancourt from the period pre 90 to compare

I have a Barbancourt 15 from no later than 82 or 83, meaning distilled in the mid-late 60s. I'd test that for sure, though I don't have a current B-15 to compare it to.

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:06 am

Hassouni wrote:
Capn Jimbo wrote:Just for fun...

1. Barbancourt Five Star: roughly 6g (at most)

You then go on to say you believe Barbancourt to be free of any adulterants. Is this because of user/equipment error? You do mention it was hard to read.

Also, to FRP: Do you have any backup bottles of ED or Pusser's to test? That ABV is absurd (not that I doubt your reading!). The US Pusser's certainly tastes like 40 proof, though I don't have any means of testing it.

It will only appear absurd if you haven't looked at Johnny Drejer's site. The ABV read by the hydrometer is how we know how much sugar has been added its not a true test of the spirts ABV.

For example his Pussers 15 reading is 32.4 which suggests 27 g/l added sugar. Around 5 to 6 spoonful per 750ml/700ml bottle.

Mine came in at just over 30 but is difficult to read as my hydrometer measures 0-100. I've now ordered a set which measure 0-40 40-70 and 70-100.

I need the full range as I have a few 70 plus ABV rums to test.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:24 am

Since Pirate is the second tester to show significant sugar in the P15, this has increasing credibility. To me this is a great value of decentralized testing. This can spot aberrations, or as in this case, confirm a reading. It can also determine whether the US and Europe get different "recipes".

I happen to have a 15 and will test it. Stay tuned...

The Fat Rum Pirate · Post by **The Fat Rum Pirate** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:17 am

Capn Jimbo wrote:
You then go on to say you believe Barbancourt to be free of any adulterants. Is this because of user/equipment error? You do mention it was hard to read.
Hass, exactly right. The reason Johnny Drejer uses hydrometers that read only 10 points, eg 30-40%, rather then one like my old one (0-100%, 100 points) has entirely to do with readability and accuracy. The divisions on my old hydro are soooo close together that they are VERY hard to read, especially dealing with the meniscus (curvature of the liquid in the test cylinder).

Thus the VERY rough readings - my goal was simply a gross comparison as noted "just for fun". Of course I will revisit this, but it's already clear that Barbancourt will come in close to the accepted 0-5g range for rums we can consider acceptable (though I may change my opinion once I get my two 10 point hydros.

BTW, I do hope you plan to order some equipment, as the movement to individual and webmaster testing is growing, and I know you have a good collection...

3 tests on the Barbancourt and then compared them to 3 times tests of MGXO and Havana Club Seleccion de Maestro's:

Barbancourt ABV on bottle 43% ABV Test Result 40% (each time)
MGXO ABV on bottle 43% ABV Test Result between 42-43 but very hard to read accurately
Havana 45% ABV on bottle ABV Test Result between 44-45 again difficult to get a definitive reading.

Like the Capn I'm waiting for a more accurate Hydro to arrive and was only testing a new 100ml measuring cylinder (need around 70ml of rum to measure to get the hydro to "bob"). If these readings are close then either Barbancourt are adding 12g/l to their Five Star OR the ABV on the bottle is inaccurate and should only be 40%. If Barbancourt's score is correct then it places it in the same numbers game as Diplomatico Reserva and English Harbour 1981.

I'm sure no-one would have expected that.

Post by **Capn Jimbo** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:36 am

Pirate:

Barbancourt ABV on bottle 43% ABV Test Result 40% (each time)
MGXO ABV on bottle 43% ABV Test Result between 42-43 but very hard to read accurately
Havana 45% ABV on bottle ABV Test Result between 44-45 again difficult to get a definitive reading.

Pirate, are you adjusting for temperature? And is your hydro calibrated for 20 deg C (most are, it should state the calibrated temp on the scale)?

Yes, that would be quite surprising if true, but that's why this testing is so important. Because of that we must be careful to not attribute too much to such rough tests, and we must be sure to follow the proper (but simple) procedure in terms of correcting for temperature (very easy).

I just received my 0-40, 40-70 and 70-100 "kit" today (I still have a 30-40 and 40-50 on order), so I'll do a quick retest of my Barbancourt Five Star. I'll also comment on the readability of this kit (which was a measly $7 including thermometer AND a printed correction table!