Hey Mama, no worries...
There's nothing wrong with running a rough test with your 0-100, which won't be perfect but will certainly reveal any major issues - until you get your new equipment, as long as we all know what they were tested with. While I do the FdC's...
The Great Sugar Test: Updates...
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
I hope you're all well seated...
...for the Flor de Cana tests. Mind you these are all older bottles, but all have those good, tight screw caps.
Flor de Cana 4 yr Gold: 21g
37% at 26 deg = 34.3%
Flor de Cana 5 yr: 11g
40.75? at 26.4 deg = 37.3%
Flor de Cana 7 yr: 8g
41% at 26.5 deg = 38.1%
Flor de Cana 12 yr: 12g
40% at 26.4 deg = 37.1%
Flor de Cana 18 yr: 14g
38.5% at 26.3 deg = 35.6%
Flat Ass Bottom Line
This of course raises again the issue of testing old spirits, particularly when the bottles are (a) years old and (b) are more than half empty. The 4 year was 3/4 empty (and a large 3 liter bottle to boot). But those are the results. As a comparison I tested a VERY old, mostly empty bottle of MGXO (43%) which returned 9g (43.3% @ 26.4 = 40.7%).
Without knowing how pure the very old MGXO was, this MAY indicate an issue with old rum; still, the FdC's are way higher. Not to mention the Pirate has tested some oldies and they came in at 0-5g, so this issue remains unresolved (but not for long). This is exactly why decentralization is important, so people - buy those kits - as this will allow others to verify with newer bottles.
Actually newer are better anyway, as these represent what is on the shelves today, not 8 years ago.
...for the Flor de Cana tests. Mind you these are all older bottles, but all have those good, tight screw caps.
Flor de Cana 4 yr Gold: 21g
37% at 26 deg = 34.3%
Flor de Cana 5 yr: 11g
40.75? at 26.4 deg = 37.3%
Flor de Cana 7 yr: 8g
41% at 26.5 deg = 38.1%
Flor de Cana 12 yr: 12g
40% at 26.4 deg = 37.1%
Flor de Cana 18 yr: 14g
38.5% at 26.3 deg = 35.6%
Flat Ass Bottom Line
This of course raises again the issue of testing old spirits, particularly when the bottles are (a) years old and (b) are more than half empty. The 4 year was 3/4 empty (and a large 3 liter bottle to boot). But those are the results. As a comparison I tested a VERY old, mostly empty bottle of MGXO (43%) which returned 9g (43.3% @ 26.4 = 40.7%).
Without knowing how pure the very old MGXO was, this MAY indicate an issue with old rum; still, the FdC's are way higher. Not to mention the Pirate has tested some oldies and they came in at 0-5g, so this issue remains unresolved (but not for long). This is exactly why decentralization is important, so people - buy those kits - as this will allow others to verify with newer bottles.
Actually newer are better anyway, as these represent what is on the shelves today, not 8 years ago.
I'd love to participate but unfortunately am not in the position to be buying any rums at the moment. I barely get enough time to smoke a pipe let alone have a dram.
I googled 'sugar in rum' yesterday and was left shaking my head at some of the discussions around the hyperglobalmeganet. I ponder the sense of it all. The market that real rum connoisseurs represent is so small that I don't think the distillers really care. The major group are those that don't really care and are happy to drink whatever as long as it tastes good.
This undertaking is fantastic but I feel will only reach a small few.
I googled 'sugar in rum' yesterday and was left shaking my head at some of the discussions around the hyperglobalmeganet. I ponder the sense of it all. The market that real rum connoisseurs represent is so small that I don't think the distillers really care. The major group are those that don't really care and are happy to drink whatever as long as it tastes good.
This undertaking is fantastic but I feel will only reach a small few.
in goes your eye out
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Blade Rummer
- Quartermaster
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:18 pm
- Location: Montreal
This sums up my view. I would add that until the majority of the online rum reviewers address the issue (btw, bravo to TheFatRumPirate for testing his rums and publishing the results), there will be little notice by the public or the distillers.da'rum wrote:The market that real rum connoisseurs represent is so small that I don't think the distillers really care. The major group are those that don't really care and are happy to drink whatever as long as it tastes good.
Good rums are rarely available anywhere to try out before purchasing (unlike whiskey, you can usually find better whiskeys in some bars, rum however...) and so the online reviews play a huge part in the purchasing decision. Like it or not, the popular softball, all rum is great, reviewers have no real incentive to deal with the sugar content, they already have a captive audience and they would risk losing all the freebies they now enjoy from the distillers if they bite the hand that feeds them!
Myself, I have changed my purchasing habits, but honestly my change in preference for drier rum over the past few years has made it easier to avoid the sugar bomb. For now, I have Appleton, Barbancourt and Brugal that are all cheap (in comparaison to other bottlings, everything is expensive here!) and at least don't taste very sweet or altered, although I believe the Barbancourt may have some sugar added based on the results published?
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The Fat Rum Pirate
- Quartermaster
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:53 pm
- Contact:
As far as the softball reviewers are concerned. With a few notable exceptions very few get a volume of regular visitors. You can do a rudimentary search of a websites popularity using Alexa Rankings and other tools online. They aren't perfect but the Alexa Rankings especially do seem a fairly decent baseline of popularity. You may be surprised how few visitors some get.....Blade Rummer wrote:This sums up my view. I would add that until the majority of the online rum reviewers address the issue (btw, bravo to TheFatRumPirate for testing his rums and publishing the results), there will be little notice by the public or the distillers.da'rum wrote:The market that real rum connoisseurs represent is so small that I don't think the distillers really care. The major group are those that don't really care and are happy to drink whatever as long as it tastes good.
Good rums are rarely available anywhere to try out before purchasing (unlike whiskey, you can usually find better whiskeys in some bars, rum however...) and so the online reviews play a huge part in the purchasing decision. Like it or not, the popular softball, all rum is great, reviewers have no real incentive to deal with the sugar content, they already have a captive audience and they would risk losing all the freebies they now enjoy from the distillers if they bite the hand that feeds them!
Myself, I have changed my purchasing habits, but honestly my change in preference for drier rum over the past few years has made it easier to avoid the sugar bomb. For now, I have Appleton, Barbancourt and Brugal that are all cheap (in comparaison to other bottlings, everything is expensive here!) and at least don't taste very sweet or altered, although I believe the Barbancourt may have some sugar added based on the results published?
Whilst a website/blog should gain traffic based on its content it doesn't really work like that. Good SEO is essential as is a presence on Social Media.
Also recently Google has changed its search alogorithim so any site that isn't optimised for mobile will fall dramatically down the search results (allegedly).
What is the point of all this? Well I'm probably the most "seen" Rum Reviewer on Social Media and I post very regularly. I am active in various Facebook groups etc etc. My sites figures are growing on a monthly basis.
I've already overtaken (if the Alexa rankings are accurate) a good number of sites in terms of views.
I'm pretty sure that my publishing the Hydro tests on my site and linking into the Project, Drecon, duRhum etc WILL hit the target audience but also draw in many others and give them food for thought.
Anecdotal evidence to be found on the Facebook groups The Global Rum Club, Ministry of Rum and La Confriere du Rhum indicates people are being alerted further by our actions and my shameless self promotion!
This is going to make a difference and anyone can do the tests and further spread the word. It costs little and is really simple.
To be honest as the Project represents the "hardcore" of the Anti Added Sugar Brigade it would to my mind be a damning indication of apathy and laziness if a number of you don't contribute!
You've talked the talk now walk the walk!
It isn't apathy nor laziness if I can't contribute to the collection of rum data. Due to work and family changes of late my expendable income is, for the moment, being used for other arguably more important things.
As the Germans say, 'sometimes life is not a pony farm'
As the Germans say, 'sometimes life is not a pony farm'
Last edited by da'rum on Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
in goes your eye out
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The Fat Rum Pirate
- Quartermaster
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:53 pm
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That's fine da'rum but there are plenty other contributors on the Project who CAN do the Hydro Tests. Time will tell how serious they are.......da'rum wrote:It isn't apathy or laziness if I can't contribute rather a different situation due to work and family changes of late. My expendable income is for the moment being used for other arguably more important things.
As the Germans say, 'sometimes life is not a pony farm'
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Blade, et al...
Please allow me to respectfully submit that what we do here really does metastasize like a good Compleat Cancer should, lol. Unfortunately some of you weren't around 8 or 10 years ago when the Preacher was the only game in town, and "...it's all good" prevailed. Z23 was commonly referred to as "the best rum in the world", stated "23 anos" on their label and no one disagreed.
Back then JaRiMi and I were truly among the first to speak our minds about what we were sure was the alternation of rum and Z23 was the poster boy. I was supported and inspired to a great degree by Richard Seale who I met at a private shindig in Coconut Grove. Older posters forgive me, but I have to retell this story...
The story:
Richard was demonstrating (and pouring) some samples when it was announced he was announcing a special new rum. The pour was made, and Richard then challenged the audience (made up of a wide variety of rum lovers). In sum he offered a bottle of Seale's Ten to anyone who could answer these three questions:
1. Is it cane or molasses based?
2. Is it column or pot stilled?
3. What is it's age?
The consensus: a pot stilled molasses rum of about 7 or 8 years of age. Richard paused and said (paraphrased) "You're all wrong. It's a column-stilled new make molasses rum that I phonied up to taste complex and old"! And THAT my friends was the light bulb that went on, and the beginning of a long, long relationship with Richard.
He had opened my eyes and I never forgot that.
But I digress...
Anyway, it was not long after that day that along with JaRiMi we spoke out insofar as Z23 and Pyrat - both heavily sugared/altered/flavored in our opinion. The general reaction? We were virtually tarred and feathered, laughed at, insulted and both of us were directly attacked by the Preacher - who denied our claims and led to our "liberation". Others here suffered the same fate, eg Dai and da'rum - both of whom dared to raise the issue, even naming the project and the petition.
But here's the point: all said, it still did not take all that long before the Zee, Pee, and now the Dee rums were outed, and to a large degree lost their smug luster. No longer was Z23 called "the best rum in the world". They even had to change their label to "23" from "23 anos" after I challenged their so-called "solera" (yet another myth).
It's affecting more people, and faster than you may think...
The number of hits here is really massive, and we have FAR more readers than posters, all to the good. The word spreads faster and farther than you may believe and has a real effect. Why you ask?
Simple: the world of rum - unlike say whiskey, bourbon or wine - is small. There are but a handful of good rum websites, and only one whose posts exceeds the Project's. Take another example, that of the notion of "styles". No one - I mean no one referred to "styles", much less named them until the concept was strongly established here. Indeed this website is organized on the concept.
How about the term "rogue rum"? Yup, my words that were repeated in thousands of my own posts around the net, and now? I see the term picked up all over the place. Mind you I'm not bragging, I'm just pointing out that what we do here actually means something.
Flat Ass Bottom Line
Rogue Rum has been outed and outed good. It's not just a tiny group of caring afficianados who care. It's also the many drinkers of whisky and bourbon who also like their rum and who already appreciate purity and honesty in labeling . I know that Richard agrees, as he too now has come to be VERY public and outspoken as he correctly has noted that the word is out, is widespread and matters to a considerable number of buyers and rum lovers.
I will tell you that Johnny Drejers decentralization is HUGE, Much has already been accomplished, but with sugar now leading and undeniable we can expect a very rapid increase in knowledge that will affect more buying decisions than you know. Believe me if it didn't really matter, was of no real consequence then the mega's would not have apparently put pressure on ALKO to stop publishing their sugar levels.
Folks, the horse is out of the barn. ALKO and the Swedes can't take back what they've already published. Johnny Drejer will continue with his well done testing. At least three webmasters have joined in, and soon I expect tens if not hundreds of caring rum afficianados to join in.
For a lousy $15, there is absolutely every reason for rum lovers everywhere to test and report their findings. It's like an avalanche - it may start with a snowball rolling downhill, but soon it accelerates and expands into a virtual explosion of information that people care about, and that will affect their buying decisions.
Mark my words...
Please allow me to respectfully submit that what we do here really does metastasize like a good Compleat Cancer should, lol. Unfortunately some of you weren't around 8 or 10 years ago when the Preacher was the only game in town, and "...it's all good" prevailed. Z23 was commonly referred to as "the best rum in the world", stated "23 anos" on their label and no one disagreed.
Back then JaRiMi and I were truly among the first to speak our minds about what we were sure was the alternation of rum and Z23 was the poster boy. I was supported and inspired to a great degree by Richard Seale who I met at a private shindig in Coconut Grove. Older posters forgive me, but I have to retell this story...
The story:
Richard was demonstrating (and pouring) some samples when it was announced he was announcing a special new rum. The pour was made, and Richard then challenged the audience (made up of a wide variety of rum lovers). In sum he offered a bottle of Seale's Ten to anyone who could answer these three questions:
1. Is it cane or molasses based?
2. Is it column or pot stilled?
3. What is it's age?
The consensus: a pot stilled molasses rum of about 7 or 8 years of age. Richard paused and said (paraphrased) "You're all wrong. It's a column-stilled new make molasses rum that I phonied up to taste complex and old"! And THAT my friends was the light bulb that went on, and the beginning of a long, long relationship with Richard.
He had opened my eyes and I never forgot that.
But I digress...
Anyway, it was not long after that day that along with JaRiMi we spoke out insofar as Z23 and Pyrat - both heavily sugared/altered/flavored in our opinion. The general reaction? We were virtually tarred and feathered, laughed at, insulted and both of us were directly attacked by the Preacher - who denied our claims and led to our "liberation". Others here suffered the same fate, eg Dai and da'rum - both of whom dared to raise the issue, even naming the project and the petition.
But here's the point: all said, it still did not take all that long before the Zee, Pee, and now the Dee rums were outed, and to a large degree lost their smug luster. No longer was Z23 called "the best rum in the world". They even had to change their label to "23" from "23 anos" after I challenged their so-called "solera" (yet another myth).
It's affecting more people, and faster than you may think...
The number of hits here is really massive, and we have FAR more readers than posters, all to the good. The word spreads faster and farther than you may believe and has a real effect. Why you ask?
Simple: the world of rum - unlike say whiskey, bourbon or wine - is small. There are but a handful of good rum websites, and only one whose posts exceeds the Project's. Take another example, that of the notion of "styles". No one - I mean no one referred to "styles", much less named them until the concept was strongly established here. Indeed this website is organized on the concept.
How about the term "rogue rum"? Yup, my words that were repeated in thousands of my own posts around the net, and now? I see the term picked up all over the place. Mind you I'm not bragging, I'm just pointing out that what we do here actually means something.
Flat Ass Bottom Line
Rogue Rum has been outed and outed good. It's not just a tiny group of caring afficianados who care. It's also the many drinkers of whisky and bourbon who also like their rum and who already appreciate purity and honesty in labeling . I know that Richard agrees, as he too now has come to be VERY public and outspoken as he correctly has noted that the word is out, is widespread and matters to a considerable number of buyers and rum lovers.
I will tell you that Johnny Drejers decentralization is HUGE, Much has already been accomplished, but with sugar now leading and undeniable we can expect a very rapid increase in knowledge that will affect more buying decisions than you know. Believe me if it didn't really matter, was of no real consequence then the mega's would not have apparently put pressure on ALKO to stop publishing their sugar levels.
Folks, the horse is out of the barn. ALKO and the Swedes can't take back what they've already published. Johnny Drejer will continue with his well done testing. At least three webmasters have joined in, and soon I expect tens if not hundreds of caring rum afficianados to join in.
For a lousy $15, there is absolutely every reason for rum lovers everywhere to test and report their findings. It's like an avalanche - it may start with a snowball rolling downhill, but soon it accelerates and expands into a virtual explosion of information that people care about, and that will affect their buying decisions.
Mark my words...
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Blade Rummer
- Quartermaster
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:18 pm
- Location: Montreal
Just to be clear, I'm in no way belittling the work done by the Project or dismissing the value of having a sugar list compiled by the posters here. Myself, I find it of great use and, like I said, I have used the list to inform my purchases and I'm looking forward to seeing the database grow.
I'm just pessimistic in that we will see a sea change anytime soon. It's just that my experience has been most people who drink rum don't really care as long as their rum tastes like "rum" (meaning 20+g/L of sugar).
I'm willing to do my part and test my meager collection (do we need another reading of Appleton Extra?). I remember a while back both Jimbo and The Fat Rum Pirate mentioned finding a faster shipping alternative to the previously mentioned testing kit, has that info been posted yet?
I'm just pessimistic in that we will see a sea change anytime soon. It's just that my experience has been most people who drink rum don't really care as long as their rum tastes like "rum" (meaning 20+g/L of sugar).
I'm willing to do my part and test my meager collection (do we need another reading of Appleton Extra?). I remember a while back both Jimbo and The Fat Rum Pirate mentioned finding a faster shipping alternative to the previously mentioned testing kit, has that info been posted yet?
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The Fat Rum Pirate
- Quartermaster
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:53 pm
- Contact:
The Hydro kits are available on ebay (search Hydrometer) the kit I'm using is a 4 piece kit in a blue box. The image used for most listings is the same.Blade Rummer wrote:Just to be clear, I'm in no way belittling the work done by the Project or dismissing the value of having a sugar list compiled by the posters here. Myself, I find it of great use and, like I said, I have used the list to inform my purchases and I'm looking forward to seeing the database grow.
I'm just pessimistic in that we will see a sea change anytime soon. It's just that my experience has been most people who drink rum don't really care as long as their rum tastes like "rum" (meaning 20+g/L of sugar).
I'm willing to do my part and test my meager collection (do we need another reading of Appleton Extra?). I remember a while back both Jimbo and The Fat Rum Pirate mentioned finding a faster shipping alternative to the previously mentioned testing kit, has that info been posted yet?
Depending on where you are just restrict the search to your territory and then order. If not when I've ordered from Hong Kong (which is where these kits are made) it takes just over a week to arrive in the UK. Obviously I can't determine how long it will take to get to Canada
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Good stuff guys...
No offense at all Blade. I really do understand your pessimism but please know that change really does happen, as we have seen. It is fair to say it's accelerating. Remember too the Petition to Save Caribbean rum, signed by no less that Dave Broom, Beachbum Berry, all manner of webmasters, a few distillers, and people from all over the world. What few actually say, many many more think. In the marketing business we used to say one complaint letter meant a thousand people who didn't write but felt the same way.
All I'm saying is have hope. Please trust me when I say that things are accelerating as each of us speaks out here and elsewhere.
Now as far as ordering, I agree with the Pirate that Hong Kong is really pretty timely, while those in mainland China take foooooooorever to ship. Carry on...
No offense at all Blade. I really do understand your pessimism but please know that change really does happen, as we have seen. It is fair to say it's accelerating. Remember too the Petition to Save Caribbean rum, signed by no less that Dave Broom, Beachbum Berry, all manner of webmasters, a few distillers, and people from all over the world. What few actually say, many many more think. In the marketing business we used to say one complaint letter meant a thousand people who didn't write but felt the same way.
All I'm saying is have hope. Please trust me when I say that things are accelerating as each of us speaks out here and elsewhere.
Now as far as ordering, I agree with the Pirate that Hong Kong is really pretty timely, while those in mainland China take foooooooorever to ship. Carry on...
here are some new tests
Bielle rhum vieux 1980's 50%
20°/47,6
sugar= 10-14g/L
Rhum Courvilles 45%
20/45,2
s=0
La Mauny BLANC circa 70's 50%
20/50,7
s=0
Takanaka St André 8yo (40%)
20/39,1
s=0-4
Rhum Vieux ALDI 6yo (40%)
20/40,1
s=0
Rhum Trois Rivières 1953 (45%)
20/44,6
s=0
Séverin 1984 (45%)
20/44,7
s=0
Karukera Double Maturation 2004/2012 (44,1%)
20/44,7
s=0
Chamarel Single Barrel 2008 (45%)
20/44,8
s=0
L'Esprit Bellevue 98/2010 (46%)
20/46
s=0
Bielle rhum vieux 1980's 50%
20°/47,6
sugar= 10-14g/L
Rhum Courvilles 45%
20/45,2
s=0
La Mauny BLANC circa 70's 50%
20/50,7
s=0
Takanaka St André 8yo (40%)
20/39,1
s=0-4
Rhum Vieux ALDI 6yo (40%)
20/40,1
s=0
Rhum Trois Rivières 1953 (45%)
20/44,6
s=0
Séverin 1984 (45%)
20/44,7
s=0
Karukera Double Maturation 2004/2012 (44,1%)
20/44,7
s=0
Chamarel Single Barrel 2008 (45%)
20/44,8
s=0
L'Esprit Bellevue 98/2010 (46%)
20/46
s=0
I got my stuff together to start measuring spirits!
Here is a shot showing the 30° range meters and one of the 10° range meters. You can see that the smaller meters only need about four to seven inches of liquid to float and the larger need 5 1/2 to 10 1/2 inches. The smaller ones are pretty easy to read to one degree; but the larger ones let you read to a tenth of a degree.
I noticed that the enclosed thermometer read about a full degree C higher than my darkroom thermometer. I think I will invest in a decent digital thermometer.
Using the smaller sized meter (40-70) and my thermometer, I measured my Barbancourts... all bought in the last six months. The results were:
B white 43% (3/4 full bottle): measured just under 42%, less than 4 gm sugar
B 4 yo 43% (3/4 full bottle): measured just over 42%, 4 gm sugar
B 8 yo 43% (less than 1/2 full): measured 41.5%, 6 gm sugar
B 15 yo 43% (2/3 full): measured 41.5%, 6 gm sugar
Here is a shot showing the 30° range meters and one of the 10° range meters. You can see that the smaller meters only need about four to seven inches of liquid to float and the larger need 5 1/2 to 10 1/2 inches. The smaller ones are pretty easy to read to one degree; but the larger ones let you read to a tenth of a degree.
I noticed that the enclosed thermometer read about a full degree C higher than my darkroom thermometer. I think I will invest in a decent digital thermometer.
Using the smaller sized meter (40-70) and my thermometer, I measured my Barbancourts... all bought in the last six months. The results were:
B white 43% (3/4 full bottle): measured just under 42%, less than 4 gm sugar
B 4 yo 43% (3/4 full bottle): measured just over 42%, 4 gm sugar
B 8 yo 43% (less than 1/2 full): measured 41.5%, 6 gm sugar
B 15 yo 43% (2/3 full): measured 41.5%, 6 gm sugar