The scene; A nice evening sitting in front of a fire with a newly bought quality bottle of spirits. A dram is poured and the aroma noted, add a little water perhaps? A polite and reverent rest period is given to the dram and after a suitable time the first sip is taken. ...
an experienced and some what obsessive taster waxes professional "I'm getting dried fruit no no not dried fruit but rather that slightly dehydrated fruit served in Madagascar at their winter solstice festival, you know? Not quite dried but definitely emaciated. Yes yes I definitely get that. Oh now it's opening up and there's cinnamon not powdered cinnamon but a cinnamon stick that has been recently thrown from a rickshaw. Now tobacco, a tin of 1973 Dunhill shag, leather oh leather! A note of boot leather, not cowhide, rather mediterranen goat leather. The finish is long not overly long but equivalent to the semibreve in Tchaikovsky's 4hand piano section in Symphony number 6 which, as you would agree, is sufficient.
A thoroughly respectable dram and to be recommended."
Myself, aroma noted, water, time and sip. Mmmm nice both consciously and subconsciously noting complex profiles. Nice nice and nice. You should try this.
A Tasting Comparison
A Tasting Comparison
in goes your eye out
My point. I fail to see any useful reason for a layman and casual enjoyer to embark on complex tasting notes or descriptions. In my opinion it detracts from the enjoyment of the moment. I have tried but I have am resolved to only loosely describe any profiles or taste descriptions and to not think too much about it as I relax with a dram.
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
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So true...
...and there are actually two issues. Da'rum actually knows his rum pretty well, and even once created a Pusser's tastealike. The first issue raised - the use of what I'd call "inaccessible" descriptors - results in self-indulgent reviews that do not really communicate. What such language (think the Wolfboy or his cold weather buddy the Caner, and yes even BTI), what such language actually seems intended to do is to self-promote the alleged skill of the reviewer in look-at-me-I'm-great style.
In sum, I must be good because I can identify such isoteric, rare and inaccessible flavors and aromas. What hogwash - of just fed free run, short hair, domesticated hogs, no doubt from a northern climate, and composed of diseased producing, unprocessed swill (that was made illegal in GB and should be everywhere).
Oink, oink!
This indeed was one of our pet peeves here (pun intended). Sue Sea especially was a good cook, photographic gustatory memory, and usually of common items known to most people. Think baking bread, raisin cake, caramel candies and the like. Common descriptors communicate so much more, but only if they are honest. Even more important is the development of the dram from first nose to fading finish. Balanced? Harmonious? Choppy? Quick fade? Signs of sugaring? And the like.
Which brings up the second issue:
The notion that we - the hoi polloi - are somehow destined to remain in tasting hell, never to understand or to be able to describe/review a spirit with any competence at all. This could not be farther from the truth. Exposure to good accessible reviews helps a lot, be it here or perhaps a review by Dave Broom - this particularly when the review is describing a rum you know and like. Also of great help is a good tasting wheel - one of the best ever is Anne Noble's Wine Aroma Wheel, developed at the University of California:
http://winearomawheel.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_C._Noble
Don't be put off by the "wine" label - most spirits wheels display many the same. This wheel works wonders by carrying you from the center out - from major categories, to subdivision, and thence to individual aromas and flavors. And this how any idiot can learn - and rather quickly. You don't have to know a specific flavor. For example perhaps all you get is "fruity", which after reflection may become "a sort of dark fruit" and then "maybe prune, no it's raisin".
All common, all accessible and that's the point. Quoting Ann Noble...
Flat Ass Bottom Line
Couldn't agree more about the look-at-me writers, a pox on their shabby and self-centered, mealy-mouthed existence. But I do believe that with just a bit of patience, attention and a good wheel (Noble's is just $7.88 delivered, and very well made) and you'll soon find your skills and confidence growing.
BTW, if you are not in the States, perhaps I can post an alternative wheel for you to copy, print and use. Both Sue Sea and I could not more recommend the value of a good wheel in learning.
...and there are actually two issues. Da'rum actually knows his rum pretty well, and even once created a Pusser's tastealike. The first issue raised - the use of what I'd call "inaccessible" descriptors - results in self-indulgent reviews that do not really communicate. What such language (think the Wolfboy or his cold weather buddy the Caner, and yes even BTI), what such language actually seems intended to do is to self-promote the alleged skill of the reviewer in look-at-me-I'm-great style.
In sum, I must be good because I can identify such isoteric, rare and inaccessible flavors and aromas. What hogwash - of just fed free run, short hair, domesticated hogs, no doubt from a northern climate, and composed of diseased producing, unprocessed swill (that was made illegal in GB and should be everywhere).
Oink, oink!
This indeed was one of our pet peeves here (pun intended). Sue Sea especially was a good cook, photographic gustatory memory, and usually of common items known to most people. Think baking bread, raisin cake, caramel candies and the like. Common descriptors communicate so much more, but only if they are honest. Even more important is the development of the dram from first nose to fading finish. Balanced? Harmonious? Choppy? Quick fade? Signs of sugaring? And the like.
Which brings up the second issue:
The notion that we - the hoi polloi - are somehow destined to remain in tasting hell, never to understand or to be able to describe/review a spirit with any competence at all. This could not be farther from the truth. Exposure to good accessible reviews helps a lot, be it here or perhaps a review by Dave Broom - this particularly when the review is describing a rum you know and like. Also of great help is a good tasting wheel - one of the best ever is Anne Noble's Wine Aroma Wheel, developed at the University of California:
http://winearomawheel.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_C._Noble
Don't be put off by the "wine" label - most spirits wheels display many the same. This wheel works wonders by carrying you from the center out - from major categories, to subdivision, and thence to individual aromas and flavors. And this how any idiot can learn - and rather quickly. You don't have to know a specific flavor. For example perhaps all you get is "fruity", which after reflection may become "a sort of dark fruit" and then "maybe prune, no it's raisin".
All common, all accessible and that's the point. Quoting Ann Noble...
"Novice tasters often complain that they "cannot smell anything" or can't think of a way to describe the aroma of wine. They don’t have the words! Fortunately, it is very easy to train our noses and brains to associate descriptive terms with specific aroma notes in wine.
Using the wheel during wine tasting will facilitate the description of the flavors you perceive. More importantly, you will be able to easily recognize and remember specific details about wines...
Flat Ass Bottom Line
Couldn't agree more about the look-at-me writers, a pox on their shabby and self-centered, mealy-mouthed existence. But I do believe that with just a bit of patience, attention and a good wheel (Noble's is just $7.88 delivered, and very well made) and you'll soon find your skills and confidence growing.
BTW, if you are not in the States, perhaps I can post an alternative wheel for you to copy, print and use. Both Sue Sea and I could not more recommend the value of a good wheel in learning.
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rockydog101
- Oscar
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:10 am
i agree with most of the stuff, and i actually guess im part of these look-at-me writters u talk about CJ, because i like to 'write', and the weird thing is that it torns me out every time.
i just need to write it down, many tastings makes me travel, on paper, on everything actually, into a blog for few years, to share, but with the same old impression to loose something every time i do it ; but on the other side im not an expressive/self centered person, im the contrary and dont like exposure. That may sounds weird, but maybe one day i'll go see a doctor
i just need to write it down, many tastings makes me travel, on paper, on everything actually, into a blog for few years, to share, but with the same old impression to loose something every time i do it ; but on the other side im not an expressive/self centered person, im the contrary and dont like exposure. That may sounds weird, but maybe one day i'll go see a doctor
Please don't misunderstand me Cyril, I really am not against all reviewers in fact I only really have a problem with a few. My main point was that for the ignorant and unwashed, like myself, flavour descriptors are pointless. We can't identify the flavour notes and even if a beautifully worded professional review were to entice us, we would inevitably be left sitting in front of our drams saying 'honeyed pistachio?, what fucking honeyed pistachio?'. So really professional or expert reviews are only really relevant for expert drinkers. The rest of us sit in our hovels and merely experience the difference between foul, nice, nicer and excellent.
The glut of reviewers and experts has within it a huge percentage of wankers in various forms. They are either accurate and arrogant or social climbing tossers who try and use disdain and name dropping coupled with average paraphrased reviews to cement their place on the spirits wall of fame or complete wastes of space like Arctic Wolf.
Of course it is good to have knowledgeable people who care and educate but they are the 1%
And as I've said before, this is not exclusive to spirits. This epidemic of wankery is rife in any skill, discipline or hobby we could care to name. It's obviously a flaw in our natures.
The glut of reviewers and experts has within it a huge percentage of wankers in various forms. They are either accurate and arrogant or social climbing tossers who try and use disdain and name dropping coupled with average paraphrased reviews to cement their place on the spirits wall of fame or complete wastes of space like Arctic Wolf.
Of course it is good to have knowledgeable people who care and educate but they are the 1%
And as I've said before, this is not exclusive to spirits. This epidemic of wankery is rife in any skill, discipline or hobby we could care to name. It's obviously a flaw in our natures.
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Ibid...
...as it is more than possible to write a review in accessible terms that not only inform, but inspire. I'm sure the the distillers like the puffery of the self-indulgent writers, but I can assure you it has exactly the oppposite effect intended. When the reader cannot identify with the flowery descriptors I believe that's actually a turn-off.
And I'll say it again, what all of us have to say - in words and ideas that are read and unguilded, it actually means something to many more people. Don't think for a minute that you can't aspire to to understanding, describing and appreciating a good spirit. A bit of patience - less than you think - and a good wheel will open up vistas you didn't think were either there or possible.
Sue Sea and I are Exhibit A - and I speak as the Compleat Idiot of Rum. You can do just as well or better, as some of our current posters have already proven.
...as it is more than possible to write a review in accessible terms that not only inform, but inspire. I'm sure the the distillers like the puffery of the self-indulgent writers, but I can assure you it has exactly the oppposite effect intended. When the reader cannot identify with the flowery descriptors I believe that's actually a turn-off.
And I'll say it again, what all of us have to say - in words and ideas that are read and unguilded, it actually means something to many more people. Don't think for a minute that you can't aspire to to understanding, describing and appreciating a good spirit. A bit of patience - less than you think - and a good wheel will open up vistas you didn't think were either there or possible.
Sue Sea and I are Exhibit A - and I speak as the Compleat Idiot of Rum. You can do just as well or better, as some of our current posters have already proven.
Of course Jimbo, a flavour wheel and some effort would more than likely broaden my horizon but how many out there are really willing to educate themselves thus?
Keep in mind my issue is not with the merit of a well written review but rather with the universal practicality of it.
That, and pompous wankers, I have an issue with them as well.
Maybe the differing levels of expertise in the multitude of reviewers means there's a reviewer for us all. Maybe there's a gig for me; Da'rums half arsed spirit reviews?
Maybe I am forgetting that not everyone thinks as I do and that what I see as useless others see as invaluable.
Maybe the reviewers and bloggers only concentrate on flavour for their reviews and every dram before or after is enjoyed concentration free.
These are all possibilities I didn't consider in my original rant.
Keep in mind my issue is not with the merit of a well written review but rather with the universal practicality of it.
That, and pompous wankers, I have an issue with them as well.
Maybe the differing levels of expertise in the multitude of reviewers means there's a reviewer for us all. Maybe there's a gig for me; Da'rums half arsed spirit reviews?
Maybe I am forgetting that not everyone thinks as I do and that what I see as useless others see as invaluable.
Maybe the reviewers and bloggers only concentrate on flavour for their reviews and every dram before or after is enjoyed concentration free.
These are all possibilities I didn't consider in my original rant.
in goes your eye out
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The Fat Rum Pirate
- Quartermaster
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- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:53 pm
- Contact:
Stick to your guns if you don't really find tasting notes useful, especially the more floral ones then that's you choice.da'rum wrote:Of course Jimbo, a flavour wheel and some effort would more than likely broaden my horizon but how many out there are really willing to educate themselves thus?
Keep in mind my issue is not with the merit of a well written review but rather with the universal practicality of it.
That, and pompous wankers, I have an issue with them as well.
Maybe the differing levels of expertise in the multitude of reviewers means there's a reviewer for us all. Maybe there's a gig for me; Da'rums half arsed spirit reviews?
Maybe I am forgetting that not everyone thinks as I do and that what I see as useless others see as invaluable.
Maybe the reviewers and bloggers only concentrate on flavour for their reviews and every dram before or after is enjoyed concentration free.
These are all possibilities I didn't consider in my original rant.
I'm not hugely convinced that many do get much out of stuff such as "cedar planks freshly cut" or "candied peel" to name just a couple of notes I've laughed at.
I recently did a "Twitter Tasting" of Havana Club rums and a few Whisky enthusiasts were brought in at the request of Havana Club. Some of their notes were great and accessible others I found to be rather flowery and slightly pompous. I still think there is a mindset that more notes = better reviewer and more complex notes = even better reviewer.
I try to keep mine accessible using common aromas and flavours (some even quite regional - but I provide links so people can at least see what I'm talking about).
Still each to his own
FRP, Jimbo and any other who was careless enough to click on this thread,
Do you need to focus on the spirit in hand to pick it's major and minor flavour profiles? Or do you find now that with experience they all come flooding to mind with ease?
Do you 'switch off' and just enjoy your glass without such thoughts as to its construction?
Do you need to focus on the spirit in hand to pick it's major and minor flavour profiles? Or do you find now that with experience they all come flooding to mind with ease?
Do you 'switch off' and just enjoy your glass without such thoughts as to its construction?
in goes your eye out