A video on 7 Fathoms Rum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX4urrndUQ4
7 Fathoms Rum
-
Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3551
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
A recycled, misrepresented and incredible claim...
Someone please prove me wrong. The original history of the discovery of the benefits of oak aging is true based on the time the rum spent in barrels on long sea voyages - the rum, now aged during the voyage and storage tasted better at the other end. But - but...
What this has to do with aging rum at 7 fathoms (42 feet) is tenuous at best.
Don't you find it odd that this video, and the Seven Fathoms website, while being full of the usual pictures of hot chicks, stills, barrels and partying has not a single - not one! - picture of the underwater storage. If there is one, it sure isn't featured. Their new and improved version of the voyaging story is full of contradictions:
1. There is far less movement on the ocean floor than on the constant rolling and pitching on the deck of a sailing craft.
2. Aging has far more to do with the breathing of the barrel as air and alcohol both enter and leave the barrel. How the breathing of the barrel is affected by being surrounded by saltwater at extremely high PSI at depth is not even addressed or explained.
3. This "story" is just another version - without justification - of increased wood contact, the same false argument used by the micro-barrel sales pitch of the ADI. Nor are we given real and believable data comparing a barrel of their rum aged on land with one at 7 fathoms.
4. Last, if this misattributed method was so terrific, as well as their associated reports of similar aging by some historical wineries wouldn't have these early experiences have been adopted by competitors over the past 300 years? Of course.
Personally, it's hard not to lump this in with the distiller who exposes his barrels to base-thumping hard rock music, glacier water from the time of Christ or diamond-filtering. Someone - anyone - prove me wrong.
Please.
Someone please prove me wrong. The original history of the discovery of the benefits of oak aging is true based on the time the rum spent in barrels on long sea voyages - the rum, now aged during the voyage and storage tasted better at the other end. But - but...
What this has to do with aging rum at 7 fathoms (42 feet) is tenuous at best.
Don't you find it odd that this video, and the Seven Fathoms website, while being full of the usual pictures of hot chicks, stills, barrels and partying has not a single - not one! - picture of the underwater storage. If there is one, it sure isn't featured. Their new and improved version of the voyaging story is full of contradictions:
1. There is far less movement on the ocean floor than on the constant rolling and pitching on the deck of a sailing craft.
2. Aging has far more to do with the breathing of the barrel as air and alcohol both enter and leave the barrel. How the breathing of the barrel is affected by being surrounded by saltwater at extremely high PSI at depth is not even addressed or explained.
3. This "story" is just another version - without justification - of increased wood contact, the same false argument used by the micro-barrel sales pitch of the ADI. Nor are we given real and believable data comparing a barrel of their rum aged on land with one at 7 fathoms.
4. Last, if this misattributed method was so terrific, as well as their associated reports of similar aging by some historical wineries wouldn't have these early experiences have been adopted by competitors over the past 300 years? Of course.
Personally, it's hard not to lump this in with the distiller who exposes his barrels to base-thumping hard rock music, glacier water from the time of Christ or diamond-filtering. Someone - anyone - prove me wrong.
Please.
-
Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3551
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Let's be honest, shall we?
Honestly, isn't it enough to simply promote your rum and its great taste? Those distillers who use lovely copper pot stills usually show them. Solera producers love to show pictures of their stacked barrels in the warehouse. Cane juice producers love to show pictures of cane fields, and fresh juice being squeezed. Many love to show pictures of their master distiller peering through his copita, held up before his/her eyes, or carefully nosing his special blend of great rums.
But this distiller is promoting their rum and attributes its award winning taste to an alleged, unique-in-history-and-time method of aging rums in 7 fathoms of saltwater. Now, if that's their main claim to fame, to which they devote a whole page of storytelling, how hard is it to take some lovely pics of the barrels on the ocean floor, surrounded by colorful parrot fish, barracuda, staghorn corals, et al? How hard would it be to back up their claims with some convincing data and documentation? To be fair, they do show some retail bottles in advertising pictures taken underwater for pure promotional value, but as far as the actual 7-fathom aging and barrels?
Not a one.
Not showing the system, not a single underwater pic, and without a shred of supporting data or theory runs my mooseshit meter into the brown zone. In sales the marketing boyz are always looking for the USP (Unique Selling Proposition) - the factor(s) that make your product honestly different, distinguishable and better. In this case I'm afraid to say, they have found their UBSP...
As for me - and I may stand alone on this (though I doubt it) - I demand honesty and transparency. I applaud experimentation, but if your method is truly history making, you damn well better show enough and explain enough to be believable... or to me, your rum is automatically devalued.
YMMV.
Honestly, isn't it enough to simply promote your rum and its great taste? Those distillers who use lovely copper pot stills usually show them. Solera producers love to show pictures of their stacked barrels in the warehouse. Cane juice producers love to show pictures of cane fields, and fresh juice being squeezed. Many love to show pictures of their master distiller peering through his copita, held up before his/her eyes, or carefully nosing his special blend of great rums.
But this distiller is promoting their rum and attributes its award winning taste to an alleged, unique-in-history-and-time method of aging rums in 7 fathoms of saltwater. Now, if that's their main claim to fame, to which they devote a whole page of storytelling, how hard is it to take some lovely pics of the barrels on the ocean floor, surrounded by colorful parrot fish, barracuda, staghorn corals, et al? How hard would it be to back up their claims with some convincing data and documentation? To be fair, they do show some retail bottles in advertising pictures taken underwater for pure promotional value, but as far as the actual 7-fathom aging and barrels?
Not a one.
Not showing the system, not a single underwater pic, and without a shred of supporting data or theory runs my mooseshit meter into the brown zone. In sales the marketing boyz are always looking for the USP (Unique Selling Proposition) - the factor(s) that make your product honestly different, distinguishable and better. In this case I'm afraid to say, they have found their UBSP...
As for me - and I may stand alone on this (though I doubt it) - I demand honesty and transparency. I applaud experimentation, but if your method is truly history making, you damn well better show enough and explain enough to be believable... or to me, your rum is automatically devalued.
YMMV.
The wood of a barrel is a permeable membrane. If you wrap it in saran wrap and keep it from breathing you effectively stop one very important element of aging.
That is possibly the biggest load of marketing bullshit I have seen to date.
I here by nominate this Rum for the first Whistling Frog "THIS IS BULLSHIT" henceforth to be awarded annually. This award will be accompanied by a letter of recognition and a certificate that the awardee can frame and put in their office. Press releases noting the award winner will be released to the blogesphere.
That is possibly the biggest load of marketing bullshit I have seen to date.
I here by nominate this Rum for the first Whistling Frog "THIS IS BULLSHIT" henceforth to be awarded annually. This award will be accompanied by a letter of recognition and a certificate that the awardee can frame and put in their office. Press releases noting the award winner will be released to the blogesphere.
I'm not about to defend these guy's on there marketing. Hey we all need an edge in this cut throat world. I have read some some good things about it though. End of the day it all boils down to one thing taste! Do you like it, is it value for money, would you buy it again.
Any rum that ticks those boxes is good, and it does not matter what there marketing spiel is.
Any rum that ticks those boxes is good, and it does not matter what there marketing spiel is.
-
Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3551
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Fair enough.
Or not? The position taken is that it's fine to lie and misrepresent - why, that's just good old marketing that we can ignore, right? As long as it tastes good. There's a slippery slope here somewhere, and it's the same one that says unlabeled flavorings are fine on roughly the same basis.
To me the only difference is one method hides the truth, while the other lies about it - both with the common purpose of misleading you to part with your money. Fair enough? Both exist in the same netherworld of gross misrepresentation that only changes expectations.
If there's an honest goal here it's to out both of these dishonest practices, so that at least if you buy that bottle of Seven Fathoms it will actually be for its flavor and honest reviews and reputation. Look at it another way - if you have a choice of hiring one of two plumbers - both who do good work, but one who lied to get the contract - which one would you hire?
You decide...
Or not? The position taken is that it's fine to lie and misrepresent - why, that's just good old marketing that we can ignore, right? As long as it tastes good. There's a slippery slope here somewhere, and it's the same one that says unlabeled flavorings are fine on roughly the same basis.
To me the only difference is one method hides the truth, while the other lies about it - both with the common purpose of misleading you to part with your money. Fair enough? Both exist in the same netherworld of gross misrepresentation that only changes expectations.
If there's an honest goal here it's to out both of these dishonest practices, so that at least if you buy that bottle of Seven Fathoms it will actually be for its flavor and honest reviews and reputation. Look at it another way - if you have a choice of hiring one of two plumbers - both who do good work, but one who lied to get the contract - which one would you hire?
You decide...
Either way, when your smothered in marketing bullshit it's insulting. I won't be giving the companies serving that crap my money. Actually I think it comes down to the fact that some of us are looking for different products.Sometimes it's ok to be lied to so long as you know it's a lie. The trouble is sometimes we don't know it's a lie then it's not ok.
From what I can tell most rum buyers want it to taste good in a cocktail, be sweet and smooth when poured neat and have some sort of interesting story, even if it's made up. The majors are giving the market what it wants. Everyone is happy.
There is a smaller group of buyers who want to know where, how and who made it and want it to be a delicious, complex involving pour when sipped neat. There has always been a market like this in Europe and England that has been well served by private bottlers. Smaller producers and private bottlers are taking notice of this smaller market segment here in the US.
-
Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3551
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Not to shave it too close...
The real truth: the public does not lead, but follows. When a handful of companies control a market, and 95% of the the advertising, product placement and shelf position the cumulative effect is to lead the public through domination of the advertising and marketing, while continuing to degrade the product to meet this created demand.
The only thing that interrupts this process is a bunch of loud mouths who know the truth, and aren't afraid to spread the word. Remember, it's a very small web world insofar as rum, and oddly enough The Project is probably the most widely read independent site on the net. It works - think Zacapa, Diplomatico and Pyrat - all of which were outed and the public caught on.
It's good, smart fellows like all of you that willl ultimately lead the charge and prevail, I believe...
*******
Capn's Note: Post often, post well, post everywhere...
As a former marketing guy, I can tell you that it's perfectly possible to market a product with honesty, and emphasizing real differences and real advantages. There is no need to make up anything. Now not to split hairs, or the Preacher's skull, but I have to disagree with the old marketing myth that "We're just giving them what they want...".The majors are giving the market what it wants. Everyone is happy.
The real truth: the public does not lead, but follows. When a handful of companies control a market, and 95% of the the advertising, product placement and shelf position the cumulative effect is to lead the public through domination of the advertising and marketing, while continuing to degrade the product to meet this created demand.
The only thing that interrupts this process is a bunch of loud mouths who know the truth, and aren't afraid to spread the word. Remember, it's a very small web world insofar as rum, and oddly enough The Project is probably the most widely read independent site on the net. It works - think Zacapa, Diplomatico and Pyrat - all of which were outed and the public caught on.
It's good, smart fellows like all of you that willl ultimately lead the charge and prevail, I believe...
*******
Capn's Note: Post often, post well, post everywhere...
We need a "Rum Rebellion" manifesto.
*******
Capn's Log: Huzza! Huzza! You bet, and I couldn't agree more Sailor. And we have a group of solid, informed and dedicated members here - who have the collective smarts to create one. Perhaps someone - moi included - could start a thread to develop one. Great idea - if I weren't The Compleat Idiot I'd have thought of it! Bravo!
*******
Capn's Log: Huzza! Huzza! You bet, and I couldn't agree more Sailor. And we have a group of solid, informed and dedicated members here - who have the collective smarts to create one. Perhaps someone - moi included - could start a thread to develop one. Great idea - if I weren't The Compleat Idiot I'd have thought of it! Bravo!
I'm with you an Jimbo on what you say but, can't wait 30/50 years for the rum world to change. In the mean time I have to live with the reality that most of the rum world 99% of it is a lie. Out of the spirits world (not just rum) the biggest liar seems to be rum. So what do you do, you pick out the least of the liars with the best tasting rum for your palate. Like I said you can lie to me so long as I know your lieing I can ignore your lies and just concentrate on the taste. Take what I want and leave the rest.sailor22 wrote:Either way, when your smothered in marketing bullshit it's insulting. I won't be giving the companies serving that crap my money. Actually I think it comes down to the fact that some of us are looking for different products.Sometimes it's ok to be lied to so long as you know it's a lie. The trouble is sometimes we don't know it's a lie then it's not ok.
From what I can tell most rum buyers want it to taste good in a cocktail, be sweet and smooth when poured neat and have some sort of interesting story, even if it's made up. The majors are giving the market what it wants. Everyone is happy.
There is a smaller group of buyers who want to know where, how and who made it and want it to be a delicious, complex involving pour when sipped neat. There has always been a market like this in Europe and England that has been well served by private bottlers. Smaller producers and private bottlers are taking notice of this smaller market segment here in the US.
We have no choice except to give up rum or most of it. The industry does not seem to be transitioning to a change any time soon.
If you guy's don't want to be lied to then give up eating and drinking altogether, go live in Ethiopia you won't have to worry about eating or drinking then. I doubt that you take this attitude with your food shopping, the odd thing here and there but, that's about it (the same as I do). Can't afford to do otherwise.
-
Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3551
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Don't abandon ship just yet...
You're right that rum is the worst offender, but things are getting better. There are still a goodly number of relatively pure and unaltered rums that don't feel the need to make up lies. We expect all marketers to present their best, romantic and enticing faces, but no one appreciates a made up lie. You know, there are embellishments, and then there are bold-faced lies, the subject at hand.
No one is saying wait for 50 years, or not to buy Seven Fathoms now, but if you do make this purchase, please do so based on trusted reviews but certainly not on the marketing story.
Speaking of time, it was only a couple years ago that the Zee, Dee and Pee rums were held forth as fine examples. Thanks to a few posters who spoke out, all are now recognized - and rejected by some - as sweet and vanilla bombs. They have lost respect
And it took two, not fifty years. Here's your life preserver...
You're right that rum is the worst offender, but things are getting better. There are still a goodly number of relatively pure and unaltered rums that don't feel the need to make up lies. We expect all marketers to present their best, romantic and enticing faces, but no one appreciates a made up lie. You know, there are embellishments, and then there are bold-faced lies, the subject at hand.
No one is saying wait for 50 years, or not to buy Seven Fathoms now, but if you do make this purchase, please do so based on trusted reviews but certainly not on the marketing story.
Speaking of time, it was only a couple years ago that the Zee, Dee and Pee rums were held forth as fine examples. Thanks to a few posters who spoke out, all are now recognized - and rejected by some - as sweet and vanilla bombs. They have lost respect
And it took two, not fifty years. Here's your life preserver...
Jimbo we are talking of a whole industry to change and that takes time, the only way to speed it up is to get consumers to change first. This may be an easier option.Capn Jimbo wrote:Don't abandon ship just yet...
You're right that rum is the worst offender, but things are getting better. There are still a goodly number of relatively pure and unaltered rums that don't feel the need to make up lies. We expect all marketers to present their best, romantic and enticing faces, but no one appreciates a made up lie. You know, there are embellishments, and then there are bold-faced lies, the subject at hand.
No one is saying wait for 50 years, or not to buy Seven Fathoms now, but if you do make this purchase, please do so based on trusted reviews but certainly not on the marketing story.
Speaking of time, it was only a couple years ago that the Zee, Dee and Pee rums were held forth as fine examples. Thanks to a few posters who spoke out, all are now recognized - and rejected by some - as sweet and vanilla bombs. They have lost respect
And it took two, not fifty years. Here's your life preserver...
*******
Capn's Log: Exactly! And we - and others who care - can "git it done"...
I have been considering this rum for a short while after a local store ordered in a bunch of it. I have not really found any review of substance on this rum at all. The price is 59.99 plus tax in my local. Rather high for a rum that is aged for 2 years. Many decent bottles can be had around that range or slightly higher.
A few things I like is that his rum is produced 100% pot still in a Christian Carl pot still from locally sourced sugar cane. They use makers mark bourbon casks for aging, which is very important for a younger pot still rum, choosing a good used cask.
I found this recent interview with one of the owners that sheds light on this venture.
http://www.beveragedynamics.com/2015/10 ... r-the-sea/
They say that the barrels are covered in large bags underwater. Also that they believe 2 years under water translates to 5-7 years on land in terms of taste.
I always thought one of the advantages to aging in the Islands was the warmer climate. One would think underwater that the temperatures are somewhat lower than on land.
So I'm kind of up in the air here on this one to be honest. I don't recall ever paying what will amount to about 65 dollars for a rum aged 2 years. I have not found any reviews of substance other than short one liners on retailers websites to go on here.
A few things I like is that his rum is produced 100% pot still in a Christian Carl pot still from locally sourced sugar cane. They use makers mark bourbon casks for aging, which is very important for a younger pot still rum, choosing a good used cask.
I found this recent interview with one of the owners that sheds light on this venture.
http://www.beveragedynamics.com/2015/10 ... r-the-sea/
They say that the barrels are covered in large bags underwater. Also that they believe 2 years under water translates to 5-7 years on land in terms of taste.
I always thought one of the advantages to aging in the Islands was the warmer climate. One would think underwater that the temperatures are somewhat lower than on land.
So I'm kind of up in the air here on this one to be honest. I don't recall ever paying what will amount to about 65 dollars for a rum aged 2 years. I have not found any reviews of substance other than short one liners on retailers websites to go on here.